whats going on?

[leaffish75]

I have had my 20 set up for 8+months. My frogspawn and hammer use to look awsome. They are both a little over half way up the tank. the hammer for the past few months has been looking ugly. it doesnt extend or any thing. the frogspawn is alright but not near as big as it use to be.
tank stats:
20L 110watt pc
HOB refugium
nitrate 0
nitrite 0
phosphate 0 (yepy finaly)
Calcium is a little high

half RO half special purified. (special purified is the cleanest water available. No RO unit can get near it. cost over $5K a gallon)

 

[Phischy]

$5,000/gal?!?!? Why? Man, just use RO/DI water it's cheaper and whatever purification you're using really isn't necessary. I don't know what the problem is, you may want to post pics. Could be issues with either a disease/feeding or some other micro-mineral/nutrient deficiency.

 

[djconn]

All your water parameters seem okay but I would have to agree that it must be something with the water source you are using. Can you explain that again? Where do you get it? Is it RO, DI or distilled?

Having you been using the same salt all this time as well?

Sorry you're having problems with your tank

 

[leaffish75]

my dad works for a chemical plant. When they work on certain units they have to flood it. electricity cant travel through 100% pure water. Plus they boil the water till it turns into steam. the steam is then shot thru pipes at a few hundered miles per hour before condinsing again. any dirt or other particles will cause a explosion. the plant manager was nice enough to let me fill up a 55 gallon drum to do some major water changes on my FW and Sw tanks. thats why i used it.
Ill see about pics somtime tonight.

 

[Sugar Magnolia]

What kind of 55 gallon drum are you holding the water in?

 

[djconn]

Hmmm...without knowing what exact water purification processes the plant used, my guess is still your water source. Was the 55 gallon drum you used brand new?

I'd try a massive (40-60%) water change and just see if you begin to see improvement in your coral's health. Just go to Walmart, HEB or Randall's (or any grocery chain) and fill up a couple 5 gallon buckets with RO/DI Glacier or Watermill brand water.

 

[leaffish75]

1. its a plastic drum chemical free.
2. i did a massive water change about 2 days ago. I took all LR out and scrubed off the HA and added a extra 2 inches of LS.

the water goes thru a process like the ro unit but then goes thru some other things. It taste better than ozarka.. I tested the water before i mixed it with salt and all was well.

 

[incysor]

If you've tested all the normal parameters, (I didn't see a mention for ammonia, or ph), and if there are no other variables that have changed, (different temp, new salt, new corals, different aquascaping, new lights, etc...) then I'd suggest by process of elimination it may be the water. Mix up a water change using regular RO/DI water, and see if there's an improvement. If there is, don't use this water anymore.

B

 

[Phischy]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if this water is plain H20 then it won't 'taste better than Ozarka'. RO/DI water is a step down from this process the plant uses. You can't drink DI water, when it is de-ionized it is free from minerals. Thus the water has free space to bond to trace elements etc... In fact, drinking DI water will rob you of electrolytes (minerals) as the water will bond to them quicker than your body can hold onto it. Plus, DI water tastes horrible.

Ozarka water is just spring water, which means it is full of minerals (unless the bottle says RO/DI). What you 'taste' are the minerals that your body needs.

This is also the reason reefers use DI water, so what you have is plain H20, and then you salt the water to put exactly into it what you want, and nothing else. WHich is why using tap water with a dechlorinator is a bad idea. That tap water is full of unwanted goods like phosphates etc...

This is my general understanding of things, I could be wrong and if I am please correct me.

*edit* Here is a link to the RO/DI FAQ on ReefCentral:
http://www.reefcentral.com/modules.php? ... page&pid=2

On the last page it confirms my belief in that it states DI water is not recomended for drinking, thus if this plant makes more 'pure' water than DI then it should taste horrible. So there may be a hidden issue there as far as what's in the water that you're using.

Hope this helps.

 

[dragon79]

I'm not the water expert, but what is RO stand for? I know the DI is distilled correct?

What is normal drinking water called? Like Arrowhead or whatever? I know when you look at that, there are no added minerals/flavoring. Is that cool to use to top off tanks or is a necessity to use DI to top off tanks? Does it matter or does it pertain to people who mix their own salt or what's the deal here?

 

[Phischy]

Dragon,
I'd read the Reef Central article, it's not very long and will explain what RO (Reverse Ossmosis) is and what DI (de-ionized) is. It's a filterting process to remove contaminents and particulate matter from water. Spring water is either RO or natural spring water. Nothing is ever added, just taken away. The Glacier or whatever, machines in supermarkets are RO machines, which remove 90-98% of matter out of the H20. Of course this does depend on how frequently the filters are maintained.

In the supermarket you can buy both spring water or RO/DI water in jugs. Just read the label to figure out which is which.

As a side note, it's always best to use DI water in iron (for ironing cloths), you'll avoid mineral build up in the machines as steams is created and you don't run the risk of getting rust or mineral deposits on your cloths. Just FYI.

 

[dragon79]

Dragon,
I'd read the Reef Central article, it's not very long and will explain what RO (Reverse Ossmosis) is and what DI (de-ionized) is. It's a filterting process to remove contaminents and particulate matter from water. Spring water is either RO or natural spring water. Nothing is ever added, just taken away. The Glacier or whatever, machines in supermarkets are RO machines, which remove 90-98% of matter out of the H20. Of course this does depend on how frequently the filters are maintained.

In the supermarket you can buy both spring water or RO/DI water in jugs. Just read the label to figure out which is which.

As a side note, it's always best to use DI water in iron (for ironing cloths), you'll avoid mineral build up in the machines as steams is created and you don't run the risk of getting rust or mineral deposits on your cloths. Just FYI.

So RO water is the drinking water we'd buy to drink like Arrowhead Spring water, correct? DI of course is distilled water that removes everything beneficial period, which makes good for appliances and other such devices that would help decrease build-up of such unwanted minerals from groing, like in an iron. (thank for the tip, I have tap water in my iron, haha)

 

[Phischy]

Yeah, pretty much.

 

[Narkon'n'more]

No, RO is not spring water, if you go to the grocery store, to the water isle, walk down to the cheap store brand labels.

Spring water comes striaght out of the ground.
Distilled is done through evaporation
RO is reverse Osmosis which means there is a membrane it has to pass through so the particales to big to get through.
DI is De-ionized, which means it goes through a chamber filled with resin that have electrical charges that bond with other free floating ionized particales that are in the water, that could pass through the membrane of the RO because they are atom size.

You don't drink DI water, but you can drink Distilled.
Distilled normally has a harsh taste, maybe slight metallic but not drying.
Drinking DI will make your mouth feel dry, as it robs your body of electrolytes.

Hope that helped. I have never seen at the grocery store DI water.

 

[leaffish75]

Okay, hang on i didnt make things clear i guess. I have been having this problem for about a month now and I just now (as in on Superbowl sunday) started using this new water. I am changing salt though. So the new water shouldnt have much effect considering this problem was present before I used the plant water.
here is a link where you can see the hammer. pics suck sorry.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b5 ... atWbhmzaNq

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b5 ... atWbhmzaNq

here it is about 3 months ago
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b4 ... atWbhmzaNq

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b4 ... atWbhmzaNq

 

[incysor]

So RO water is the drinking water we'd buy to drink like Arrowhead Spring water, correct? DI of course is distilled water that removes everything beneficial period, which makes good for appliances and other such devices that would help decrease build-up of such unwanted minerals from groing, like in an iron. (thank for the tip, I have tap water in my iron, haha)

No. Arrowhead spring water is not RO water unless it specifically states on the bottle that it has been run though a reverse osmosis filtering process. Spring water is just spring water. Just the same as you'd drink out of a creek in the mountains. Period. It tends to taste a bit better than tap water, because it has less flouride/chloromines etc...but it still has a bunch of minerals that you don't want.

DI does NOT stand for distilled.

DI = de-ionized.

Distilled water is NOT DI water. It's just water that's been boiled, the steam is collected and condensed, voila, distilled water. It isn't run through any other filtering processes.

B

 

[Phischy]

Read the ReefCentral article, it explains everything there and how the filters work in laymans terms.

When I said spring water was RO, I meant the Glacial Water machines, they say it's spring water but it's just tap water run through an RO filter. If it says 'spring water' it is straight outta the ground.

 

[incysor]

Okay, hang on i didnt make things clear i guess. I have been having this problem for about a month now and I just now (as in on Superbowl sunday) started using this new water. I am changing salt though. So the new water shouldnt have much effect considering this problem was present before I used the plant water.
here is a link where you can see the hammer. pics suck sorry.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b5 ... atWbhmzaNq

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b5 ... atWbhmzaNq

here it is about 3 months ago
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b4 ... atWbhmzaNq

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b4 ... atWbhmzaNq

Ok so the new water can probably be ruled out.

What's your salinity?
What's your PH?
What salt brand were you using and what did you switch too?
How old are your lights?
Have you changed your lights?
What's the temp on the tank?
Is it higher or lower than a month ago?
Did you put anything new in the tank near the time it started acting this way? Think about a week before you noticed it and a week after.

B

 

[mikeguerrero]

Incysor is totally right about the process of elimination. In the reefing world it's almost like the computer world.

When you start to have crashes on your operating system or something just conflicts with another piece of hardware. You must go back and think what you last added to your PC via software or hardware.

9 times out of 10 it's the last thing you added that will resolve the issue. Good luck in finding the answer.

Mike

 

[dragon79]

well after reading the article, it does say:

"Can I drink the purified water?

The RO output water is excellent for drinking. Most vendors offer a drinking water kit that includes a pressure tank, a small faucet which can be attached to your sink, and a post-filter for the drinking water. The post-filter supposedly improves the taste."

Purified water brands available to buy at the grocery store or 99 cent store would be water like " Arrowhead, Evian, Crystal Geyser ® Alpine Spring Water ™ and other types that say "Natural Spring Water"

So as long as you are using those I imagine it's fine, or correct me if I'm wrong here. Still learning and understanding this deal.