whats going on?

[leaffish75]

i was using oceanic but my calcium levels were off the scale. I have been using oceanic since i began this tank. After talking to some one at Global i tested my ph which was a little off (7. somthing) it wasnt off by much though. Salinity is keep at 1.023. One day i tested the tank and it read to high. why i dont know. i test the water 4 times before i add it to the tank and it reads 1.022-1.023. havent added the new salt yet so that eliminated.
lights are 3 months old. i started with t-5s (24watts) then went to the pcs which they had no changes.
temp 77-80
the first 2-3 months of the tank i used no heater but the temp in my room would drop to 70 or lower so i added one back in Nov.
i have added false ricordia, frogspawn, brain, polyps, 2 clowns, lawnmower blenny, colt.
I dont know if it has any coralatin but i used flatworm exit about a month ago. cant remeber how it looked then. I had a hair alage problem shortly after the flat worm exit.
Im going to test every thing this evening. Nitrate, trites, ammonia, ph, salinity, calcium (test kit sucks but its all i have for now), alk.
I went from tap (our tap is relativly good no nitrates trites but has sulfer/phosphates) RO water. The kind that you get from the grocery store.

 

[incysor]

well after reading the article, it does say:

"Can I drink the purified water?

The RO output water is excellent for drinking. Most vendors offer a drinking water kit that includes a pressure tank, a small faucet which can be attached to your sink, and a post-filter for the drinking water. The post-filter supposedly improves the taste."

Yes you can drink RO, DI, or distilled water.

However you and your fishtanks are two seperate issues. Just cause you can drink it, (and it's not necessarily good for you), doesn't mean that your tanks can handle it as well as your body can. Long term (6mo-yr or more), of entirely RO water drinking has led to raised occurances of cavities and other tooth/gum related issues. I've read that DI water can cause issues by stripping minerals back out of your system, but I haven't seen any case studies yet, and from my own biology/chemistry classes I seriously doubt it's gonna affect you much more than the RO water. However cavities are expensive, so I'll make sure I drink a bunch of tap along with my occasional RO.

Purified water brands available to buy at the grocery store or 99 cent store would be water like " Arrowhead, Evian, Crystal Geyser ® Alpine Spring Water ™ and other types that say "Natural Spring Water"

So as long as you are using those I imagine it's fine, or correct me if I'm wrong here. Still learning and understanding this deal.

I wouldn't use them unless I find the words reverse osmosis on the container.

B

 

[incysor]

i was using oceanic but my calcium levels were off the scale. I have been using oceanic since i began this tank. After talking to some one at Global i tested my ph which was a little off (7. somthing) it wasnt off by much though. Salinity is keep at 1.023. One day i tested the tank and it read to high. why i dont know. i test the water 4 times before i add it to the tank and it reads 1.022-1.023. havent added the new salt yet so that eliminated.
lights are 3 months old. i started with t-5s (24watts) then went to the pcs which they had no changes.
temp 77-80
the first 2-3 months of the tank i used no heater but the temp in my room would drop to 70 or lower so i added one back in Nov.
i have added false ricordia, frogspawn, brain, polyps, 2 clowns, lawnmower blenny, colt.
I dont know if it has any coralatin but i used flatworm exit about a month ago. cant remeber how it looked then. I had a hair alage problem shortly after the flat worm exit.
Im going to test every thing this evening. Nitrate, trites, ammonia, ph, salinity, calcium (test kit sucks but its all i have for now), alk.
I went from tap (our tap is relativly good no nitrates trites but has sulfer/phosphates) RO water. The kind that you get from the grocery store.

You say your test kit sucks? If you don't have any faith in it, I'd take a cup of tank water over to Global and have them run the full set of tests.
Salinity, ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, calcium, ph, phosphates.

When I used flatworm exit, I definitely saw an immediate reaction from most of my mushrooms, my anememones, and my frogspawn. I ran carbon like the directions said, and I did a large water change, (30%) siphoning out any dead flatworms I could find. I continued to run carbon on the system for the next week then I then did another large water change. Approx. 25% that time.

You're salinity is a bit low for a reef tank. You're target should be 1.025.

From your posts you said you changed the lights and the salt, used salifert flatworm exit, added new corals, and fish, had a hair algae problem, (which points to raised levels of phosphates and nitrates).
Is this ALL in the space of time we're talking about?

List ONLY the things you changed starting one week before your coral started shrinking to the present.

How do you know the water you're getting from the grocery store is RO water? Are you filling jugs at the refill station? Or are you buying new jugs of water each time? If you're buying new jugs, does it say reverse osmosis on the label?

The reason I ask about the water is that the refill stations are notorious for not having their filters changed in a timely fashion, and lots of people think they're buying RO water in jugs that isn't anything other than spring water.

B

 

[djconn]

I'd also like to add that when I said go to your grocery store to buy RO/DI water - I meant from the machine in the parking lot or at the front of the store. It is definitely NOT spring water or anything like that which you'd buy on the shelf. It specifically states that their water has been through a RO or DI purification process. Its like 25 cents per gallon. Do not use the arrowhead, alpine or other brands of spring water in your tanks. Just wanted to clear all that up.

 

[dragon79]

I researched Dasani drinking water ( a product of coca-cola company )

It says this at their website:

"...Filtered for purity using a state-of-the-art process called reverse osmosis. The purified water is then enhanced with a special blend of minerals for a pure, fresh taste."

Then I went to search for what those "enhancements minerals" are, and came up with this.

http://www.dietfacts.com/html/items/24444.htm

Then I read this article on Dasani

http://www.newstarget.com/001028.html

So I guess it's not good, if it's going to give extra minerals and cancer causing ingrediant "bromite" to my fish, ha ha ha

I almost gave up but with my friend we've been searching and she found that "Aquafina" is a reverse osmosis drinking water made by Pepsi-cola corporation. They are the only company right now *as far as I know* that are carrying quality water product using that filtration process.

http://www.energyfirst.com/site/files/p ... -Guide.pdf


I think I'll make the change and use that from now on. Before I was using Spring water from Arrowhead, which isn't a bad product itself, it just uses different filtration methods.

http://www.arrowheadwater.com/faq/categ ... sp?id=3#25

 

[djconn]

Once again I would not use anything labeled, or marketed for that matter, as "drinking water".

Do they not have those RO/DI vending machines up in Cali?

 

[incysor]

RO/DI water at the LFS runs about $1 a bottle. Same goes for Salt.

You don't save much by buying any of the bottles in the grocery store. So why mess with it?

The machines are obviously cheaper...Usually about .25, but folks have gotten burned when the filters weren't changed frequently.

I have used water from these machines a few times because I was filling up a new tank, or had an emergency water change to do. But I wouldn't make a habit of using the water from them.

B

 

[dragon79]

Once again I would not use anything labeled, or marketed for that matter, as "drinking water".

Do they not have those RO/DI vending machines up in Cali?

Yeah probably, from what I've gained I'll take a look now. I just had to be the nut to research all this crap. I haven't seen the price of Aquafina by the gallon but I imagine you can't beat 25 cents per gallon for RO water at the water machine. I'll check Dj and see what I find and see how much per gallon.

At our house the only thing I'd need it for is my pico tank. The JBJ of my girlfriends does not evaporate hardly anything, being how it's closed up on top. We've never had to top off since owning it and the water level has maintained. I bet though in the summer, it will be the issue and where we'd need to have the RO water for it then.

Thanks again to everybody, incysor, dj and everybody. I learned and researched a lot about water that I didn't know. Interesting findings. Adios.

EDIT: I read your post incysor as mine posted in. So a long term is bad at the machines, and is good for emergency only. Understood. Good to know it's easily attainable by LFS. I have quite a few of those here, and one as close as 3 minutes. I'll check with them and see how much per gallon. Thanks!

 

[incysor]

Once again I would not use anything labeled, or marketed for that matter, as "drinking water".

Do they not have those RO/DI vending machines up in Cali?

Yeah probably, from what I've gained I'll take a look now. I just had to be the nut to research all this crap. I haven't seen the price of Aquafina by the gallon but I imagine you can't beat 25 cents per gallon for RO water at the water machine. I'll check Dj and see what I find and see how much per gallon.

At our house the only thing I'd need it for is my pico tank. The JBJ of my girlfriends does not evaporate hardly anything, being how it's closed up on top. We've never had to top off since owning it and the water level has maintained. I bet though in the summer, it will be the issue and where we'd need to have the RO water for it then.

Thanks again to everybody, incysor, dj and everybody. I learned and researched a lot about water that I didn't know. Interesting findings. Adios.

EDIT: I read your post incysor as mine posted in. So a long term is bad at the machines, and is good for emergency only. Understood. Good to know it's easily attainable by LFS. I have quite a few of those here, and one as close as 3 minutes. I'll check with them and see how much per gallon. Thanks!

If I were ONLY doing nano tanks I wouldn't mess with an RO/DI unit except one of the disposable ones that you can buy and hook up to your sink for emergencies. I wouldn't buy salt and mess with making my own saltwater. I'd just buy RO/DI top-off water and Saltwater at the same time from the LFS. I'd do it this way because the amount of water we're talking about for nanos is easily handled by a couple 5g or 10g jugs. The amount of money necessary to fill these up is nothing compared to the coral frags, or fish, etc.. I end up buying there anyway.

B

 

[dragon79]

yeah, sounds more practical to go that route. We already go to Tongs in Fountain Valley to get our "Catalina Water" so I can either get some top off water there or at the LFS that's 3 min from our pad. Either way I am sure it wont be difficult. Thanks B.

 

[leaffish75]

okay the things that arent causing the problem for sure are: water, salt, and light.

I use the ro water from a little station in the parking lot. it says RO water on it plus i used my test kit and tested for nitrate,trite, and phosphates. all are 0. Im using jugs that are for my tanks only. I have 2 7gallon jugs and a 5 gallon gas can which has NO GAS ALLOWED spray painted. Nothing harmfuly or any substance other than tank water has been in any of them.

Im not sure about the flatworm exit because all other corals were unaffected (mushrooms, colt, kenya, brain).


Within the week i notice the change i add a lawnmower bleeny, had a HA problem (nitrate test read 0 phosphate test read .2 to .5), 2 clown fish, a piece of LR with 3 hariy mushrooms, and red polyps. Oh and 6 scarlet hermits, and 12 micro blue legs.
The reset was added a few more wks early but im not sure if the coral was shrinking then or not. I did move it from the frogspawn. they use to be right next to each other and now they are on opposite sides of the tank.

I dont have much faith in the Hagen calcium test and plan on buying a salfirt one next time i get paid. Global is a hour drive so i cant just up and go unfortunately.

 

[incysor]

okay the things that arent causing the problem for sure are: water, salt, and light.

I use the ro water from a little station in the parking lot. it says RO water on it plus i used my test kit and tested for nitrate,trite, and phosphates. all are 0. Im using jugs that are for my tanks only. I have 2 7gallon jugs and a 5 gallon gas can which has NO GAS ALLOWED spray painted. Nothing harmfuly or any substance other than tank water has been in any of them.

Im not sure about the flatworm exit because all other corals were unaffected (mushrooms, colt, kenya, brain).


Within the week i notice the change i add a lawnmower bleeny, had a HA problem (nitrate test read 0 phosphate test read .2 to .5), 2 clown fish, a piece of LR with 3 hariy mushrooms, and red polyps. Oh and 6 scarlet hermits, and 12 micro blue legs.
The reset was added a few more wks early but im not sure if the coral was shrinking then or not. I did move it from the frogspawn. they use to be right next to each other and now they are on opposite sides of the tank.

I dont have much faith in the Hagen calcium test and plan on buying a salfirt one next time i get paid. Global is a hour drive so i cant just up and go unfortunately.

Is the 5g gas can plastic or metal? Metal is a no-no of course.
I've got several plastic gas cans, and some of them have a metal screen/filter either on the nozzel, or in the area the nozzel connects to the can.

Flatworm exit could still be a factor. I didn't notice any responses an my leathers, or brains at any time, so I just don't think they were bothered by it. The FE isn't the only factor when you use it. There's also the fact that the flatworms release toxins into the water as they die off. That's the reason for doing major water changes and running carbon.

Colt and cabbage leathers have seriously long feeder tentacles. They usually extend them at night, so maybe that could be irritating the torch. I'm not sure about the kenya. This should be easily fixed or ruled out just by moving the torch to another location and seeing if it starts expanding fully. Another possibility is there may be too much flow in the are the torch is in. High flow can tear and damage frogspawn, and torch corals, because the tentacles get thrown about. They'll tend to not extend in this case.

The filters on the station in the parking lot could simply not have been changed recently. There are lots of threads on RC about people having major issues after using RO water from these types of machines. There's no real way to tell if they're being serviced correctly or not.

I'd try moving the torch to another location.
If it extends fully, then you've fixed the problem, and it was either being irritated by a neighbor, or too much flow.

If it doesn't extend, I'd try switching your source of RO water. If you don't have an LFS nearby, try a machine at another grocery store.

Since Global is a drive for you, I'd try these first and see if it helps. If not, then I'd take a water sample the next time it's convenient.

B

Here's a pic of my devil's hand leather with one of the long tentacles extended. It's under the damsel

 

[leaffish75]

Well the frogspawn is near the colt and doing fine now. the hammer was never any where near the colt. According to the chart they service it min every 2 days. well see what happens in the next few days. all water containers are plastic.
FYI this is how i did the FE...
I added the drops directly to the refugium let it run until i started seeing the flat worms die then i shut the pump off the the refugium and let it sit for about 30 mins. I added the charcoal to the refugium so that when the water flows back into the tank it would have to pass thru the carcoal. I then added some extra charcoal to my ehiem power head. After every thing was up and running again i took out 5 gallons of water and let it run for about 3hrs then i did another 5 gallon water change. waited for a week and did a normaly water change. I removed the charcoal on day 3.

 

[incysor]

Well the frogspawn is near the colt and doing fine now. the hammer was never any where near the colt. According to the chart they service it min every 2 days. well see what happens in the next few days. all water containers are plastic.
FYI this is how i did the FE...
I added the drops directly to the refugium let it run until i started seeing the flat worms die then i shut the pump off the the refugium and let it sit for about 30 mins. I added the charcoal to the refugium so that when the water flows back into the tank it would have to pass thru the carcoal. I then added some extra charcoal to my ehiem power head. After every thing was up and running again i took out 5 gallons of water and let it run for about 3hrs then i did another 5 gallon water change. waited for a week and did a normaly water change. I removed the charcoal on day 3.

It sounds like everything should be good.

As far as I can tell you've done everything right. :smile:

There are areas that are beyond your control. Just because a chart gets marked doesn't mean the thing is being serviced correctly, or at all.
Your tests could be innaccurate.

Try pointing your powerheads differently, or see if you can move it to a low flow area. It's not gonna hurt to try it.

If this doesn't help. And you get you've tried changing where you get the water. And everything tests out at global. The only thing I could think of would be to raise your salinity.

Otherwise I don't really have any suggestions other than possibly it's being attacked by a parasite you can't see, possibly it's got an infection. Corals are living critters and can get sick just like us. Perhaps adding a bit if iodine to the system to help it if it is healing.

Sorry, but it really does sound like you've done everything the right way, so there isn't anything to point to and say "ya gotta fix this".

Good luck,

B