Planning to convert my freshwater 29 into a reef. Input?

kosey929

New Member
Hi all!

I'm finally starting to get the feel for this reefkeeping thing and I've decided to convert my 29 AGA freshwater tank into a minireef. I want to do a better job than I did starting up my JBJ NC12DX and promise to research my livestock purchases beforehand this time. Really.

What do I need? FYI: I'm more into putzing with the critters and water than I am into DIY on the equipment side, so I will be purchasing OEM stuff to make the switch. (That is...after I find a new home for my freshies. If you are in N. Wis. and are interested please check out my ebay listing: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... %3AIT&rd=1)

Filter: HOB power filter or OEM refugium? What are the pros and cons of each? I was thinking Skilter Filter...feedback anyone?? Or, would a refugium with macro help offset the chances of a hair algae outbreak early on?

Lighting: I have an AGA glass top and want to go with a strip-type fixture with built in lunar lights. (Remember no DIY for me! Only instant gratification...wrong hobby, I know, I know.) How much difference will I see in a fixture that has MH vs. just compact fluoro? For example: Current Orbit or Coralife Aqualight 2x65 at around $150 vs. a Sunpod HQI MH at about $330 http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/P ... 004+113352 ? Is the MH worth the extra $200? What critters can I keep w/ the MH that I can't keep w/ the compact fluoro? I would prefer to spend less than $200 but will cough up more if the advantage is that much greater.

Live rock: I have some live rock sitting in a bucket of saltwater in my garage. It's been in there since May. Can it be resurrected? It doesn't smell too bad. :lol: I was thinking maybe I could throw a heater and PH in the bucket to get it started.

I know I'm asking a lot of questions, but I really want to do this and do it right. Now that my cube is starting to take shape, I want to try another one.

Thank you oh seasoned ones! :maitre :maitre :maitre :maitre

Karen

p.s. Here are a couple of current pics of my nano. I still have some HA, but it's much better. My corals are finally glued to the rocks and everything is recovering nicely from the death of my impulse-buy bulb anemone.



 

reefman23

New Member
I would skip the Skilter... I have never heard a good thing about them. For a skimmer, check out the Coralife Super Skimmer 65... it will be the next skimmer I buy.

The lighting will be up to you. The 29 is kinda tall and I would personally go with a MH fixture. It would allow you better flexibilty when it came to coral selection. Here is a better price on the Sunpod though... http://www.aquacave.com/detail.aspx?ID=808 , or here http://www.marineandreef.com/shoppro/metal_SunPod.htm ... personally, I dont think i will leave MH lighting.

The live rock could probably be used again, but dont expect to find too much life left on it.

HTH,

Jesse
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
i agree with jesse on that tank MH is probably the way to go but i don't like that fixture at all, because there are no supplimental PC's, T5's, or VHO and i have never been a fan of stand alone MH - i believe actinic sup is a must. and if you were to go single stand alone MH then you almost need to go with a 250W bluer bulb to get asthetics like the phoenix 14 or even 20K radium - i know that says it comes with a 14K but not all bulbs are created equaly!

let me look around a bit and get back to you - oh yea don't forget you have options other then that as well - more cost/heat/energy effecient option may be t5's or VHO flourescents - and you will be able to keep all but the very most light hungry critters with them.
 

kosey929

New Member
johnanddawn said:
let me look around a bit and get back to you - oh yea don't forget you have options other then that as well - more cost/heat/energy effecient option may be t5's or VHO flourescents - and you will be able to keep all but the very most light hungry critters with them.
Thanks John! Would you define "very most light hungry critters"? Someday I would like to attempt an anemone again, and I want to make sure I have enough light for that. What about clams? Just looking down the road....

Karen
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
after thinking about it and looking around - if it were me planning a 29 - even though i love MH lighting i don't think i would choose it for this tank and here is why:
1) the spread of a MH bulb is most effective in a 18x18 to a 24x24" region. so if you were to go MH much of the light in a 12" tank actually ends up on the floor so much of the wattage is wasted.
2) as i said i do not like stand alone MH - my experience with it is it is very hard to get a bulb that gives both asthetics and PAR in a single bulb. 10K are to yellow, and 14 - 20 are nice looking but tend to be low in PAR so you need to go bigger like 250 watt - which is an option if you really want MH. i would get a 250W phoenix in a high quality pendent reflector with an electronic ballast
3) to get a quality fixture with actinic sup your looking at about 350 - 500 dollars unless you DIY then it can be done for a reasonable price but still spendy.

So then given that, here is what i would do - go with either T5's or VHO. you probably didn't pay a lot of attention but 2/3's of my 125 is lit by VHO - i only have the one MH on the far right end. flourescents will give you a good spread of light and a quality reflector on the VHO's and individual reflectors on the T5's will put the light where you need it here are my choices for this tank

this is a nice 4 bulb t5 set up with independent lighting so two actinic bulbs and two of the aquablue types would be a nice color - about 300$ 100W(but they say with t5's less is wasted due to the individual reflectors so less is needed)
http://www.reefgeek.com/products/catego ... 04186.html

this is a VHO set up same thing 2 actinics and 2 actinic whites - this is what i run (note also the 2 year warrenty) about 250$ + cost of a reflector/hood so actual cost will be more then the t5 by the time your done 300W
http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem. ... uct=PF5117

you can get bulbs from either place or drs f&s carry them as well - just something to think about if you would like to talk more about these choices and why just let me know.

as far as what you can keep - with the VHO you can keep anything and the colors of your zoas and such will be amazing - it may even be a bit bright for some critters (shrooms, low light lps's) and they may need to be carefully acclimated to the light at first or kept low and in the corners. i have never tried t5's (one day i will buy this exact unit cause i want to try it so bad!!!) but those who have say the same thing - because they are so effecient all the light goes into the tank and many people even keep SPS's with them. well i doubt i helped much but at least you have something new to ponder
 

kosey929

New Member
JohnandDawn said
well i doubt i helped much but at least you have something new to ponder
John,

I do remember the lighting on your tank. I liked how you had the different lighting over the clams. Your tanks are inspiring!

Actually that does help. If I'm going to be able to keep most critters w/ VHO, then I'd rather go that route and spend less money. The lights you picked sound great, but are a little too DIYish for me. Tell me what you think of these for a lazy-butt like me:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12109&pvid=51983&productnum=0021151

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=11348&pvid=60485&productnum=0026275

F&S has a good price on the coralife right now, and if that would be sufficient in your opinion I will probably go snatch one up.

Also, I'm bidding on a CPR Aquafuge PS for filtration. What do you think? Do I need more filtration and flow than this?

Thanks a bunch!
Karen
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
i own the coralife one and it is will NOT support clams, high light corals, or make your zoas pop (they will brown out, personal experience!)....... its a nice light but PC's do not match VHO or t5's - so i cannot recommend it unless you want a mushroom, softy, lps tank - then it is a good choice and a good price no doubt

that tec light with the t5's is complete plug and play - all you have to do is buy and put in the bulbs! and i have heard nothing but good about them so if plug and play quality is what you want that is your best choice..... the nicest tank i have ever seen in a picture, is some german guy that runs a similar unit on his tank - stunning to say the least. ever since seeing that pic i've wanted to try one but have too many light sets and tanks allready :( -they are a bit spendy but high quality and the bulb life is like 18 months and the energy consumtion is low so you'll make up that price in a few years, and yes that VHO unit needs a bit of DIY work no doubt, but WOW will your corals glow!! there is nothing like the glow of VHO actinic bulbs - my favorite viewing time is when just the actinic bulbs are on
the clam end that you spoke of though is MH - the only way to get that shimmer you liked so much is with MH - i could help you put together a nice MH/PC unit like i have on my figi tank for about 350 dollars+/- i think???? and you will get that shimmer and have an awesome light set made with high quality components if that is really the look you want - and it will be a light set that you can use in the future on any tank. that sunpod is OK but not the best components or bulb and you won't have the PC actinics. i'm not saying its not an option - just not my choice

aqua c remora or their new aqua c remora nano is the only skimmer for small tanks i will recommend - there are certainly other ones that work but these units are outstanding - plug-play-and skim no tinkering and always working units - i love mine worth the price as you only buy it once

the one thing i've learned over the years is to buy the best the first time - i'll show you the graveyard of junk that is stored in my garage if you want - it took me a while to figure this out. i bet most reefers who have been at this a while have similar collections
again i'm not here to spend your money :) just trying to show you all the considerations there are when it comes to lighting - easily the most debated (and expensive) part of our hobby.
 

reefman23

New Member
As far as skimmers go, I have heard TONS of good stuff about the Coralife Super Skimmer 65... It is a HOT or in-sump. I think I am going to be getting it for my tank. Oh and you should be able to get it for around $80.

Jesse
 

kosey929

New Member
johnanddawn said:
the only way to get that shimmer you liked so much is with MH - i could help you put together a nice MH/PC unit like i have on my figi tank for about 350 dollars+/- i think????

the one thing i've learned over the years is to buy the best the first time
Hmmmm.....got me thinking about that nice MH/PC idea. I want to do this right the first time, but within a reasonable budget. I'm going to take another look at that tek light.

I can tell picking out the light is going to be the hardest part....arrrggghh.

Karen
 

EDGRAY

New Member
kosey929 said:
I can tell picking out the light is going to be the hardest part....arrrggghh.

Karen
I feel your pain Karen, and you are right no matter what they say light is the hard part but if you are smart will go right away to the best instead of the cheap i tell you that cause alot of us go with the cheap thing and in the long run is more expensive why? cause we keep upgrading and upgrading cause we dont like the look of the tank or corals and well when you finally happy you say man i should pay more attention on went right away for the best!.... i tell you this cause i've upgrading my light for 3 times so far :mrgreen: and well if i could ill go with what J&D recommended MH with any suplemention of PC,VHO or you can go with only T5 or VHO.....and well never go with just PC at first will look nice but corals wont look that nice really like you'll see that other have nice and colorful corals so for that you really need to sit down search and think and get the best light for you!

Good luck...

EDDY

P.S: dont go just with PC :wlift
 

kosey929

New Member
Thanks for the good advice, Ed. I'm at a loss. I'm more confused now than when I started.

Meanwhile, I found a home for my freshies. I filled the tank up with water and salt. I've got my aquaclear filter runnning for the moment just to get things circulating until I get a better filter.

Would somebody please clarify whether a fuge is all I need for filtration? I'm bidding on an Aquafuge PS on ebay and if I win the auction that's what I'm getting. Do I need to supplement it in any way? More flow???

Help! I'm clueless!

Karen
 

EDGRAY

New Member
Well for a stable setup the fuge is amost,but also you'll need a skimmer, and well just wondering did you just put running the tank and then put the fish in tank??? I'm asking cause im concerned cause doesnt sound that you cycled the tank!..
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
fuges are nice in general and i like those aquafuges they seem like a pretty descent unit - but i believe i've heard stories about people haveing trouble with microbubbles getting into the tank on the ps models???? not sure though... but if that becomes a problem you can always add a bubble trapping sponge or something to stop them. some LS and chaeto is all you need but some add rubble as well - although i wouldn't cause its best to keep the sand surface clear in my opinion

as far as your lighting goes - i still like the tec T5 unit for this tank because of its dimentions like i said earlier, but if you want MH shimmer - this is an OK unit and drs f&s have this on sale right now (300):
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/P ... 004+113352

its a nice step up from that sunpod for about the same money, but i'm not sure about the bulb quality - but thats minor you can always replace it with a different one if you choose to later
i would add that LR from the bucket and a couple power heads and let it cycle for a month or so without the lights anyway - so you still have time to think about it
MJ's are always a good choice and this set up is nice (i own two) - i'd get the 900's for this tank i think
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/P ... 004+113782
are you broke yet?????? :) - don't worry if you do go MH i have about a half dozen SPS frags for you to get started with that won't cost you anything
 

kosey929

New Member
EDGRAY said:
Well for a stable setup the fuge is amost,but also you'll need a skimmer, and well just wondering did you just put running the tank and then put the fish in tank??? I'm asking cause im concerned cause doesnt sound that you cycled the tank!..
No worries! I only have water in the tank right now. I am going to take my time with this....really. I'll try to at least.

J&D-
I really like that light that F&S has on sale, but it doesn't come in a 30" size - same with the Tek. I'm running into that problem with a lot of lights. Do you know if the 24" units can typically be used on a 30" tank? If I end up w/ MH I will take you up on your SPS. Thanks!

I hope the fuge works well. I like that it seems pretty easy to set up and has the PS built in. I am very intrigued by that wavemaker on F&S. I may have to pony up for that too.

Karen
 

TimSchmidt

New Member
If you want to do it right I would have a fuge, skimmer, and some place to put in other media (carbon, phosban, etc..). An HOB filter is a good place for those and you can take it off if you don't want it running. If all else fails on the light you could find a local carpenter and have them build you a canopy and have them (or a handyman) install a DIY MH and actinic supplements. (Or maybe you could pay someone on this sight to do it for you and ship it to you...) just tossing out ideas.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
hey karen heres a link to a tank lit with T5s - its not the tank i was talking about but as you will see it is awesome - its a 4' tank lit with 4 4' t5's similar to the tec light
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2006/2/aquarium
and yes a 29 is an "odd" size when it comes to lighting - 2' 3' 4' are much more common then 30" so there are far more options out there - but many people have 30" tanks jesse's 20L is a beautiful example - but yes to answer your question i would buy a 2' fixture (whether the MH or the t5) - the corners would be a nice place to put shrooms or LPS's - and consentrate your light lovers in the middle
 

reefman23

New Member
thanks, john, for the comment! FWIW, I plan on constructing a canopy sooner or later... most likely later... so that I can mount the 150 watt MH in there and add some actinic supplementation. I was thinking (2) 24 watt t-5 HO's, but may just end up going with PC's. I have considered VHO's as well. J&D... I recall you mentioning that your favorite lighting combo is MH with VHO actinic supplementation, right? You dont happen to have any spare VHO fixtures laying around do you? ;)

Jesse
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
:) yea jesse MH/VHO IMO is by far the most asthetically pleasing/coral loving/growth and color combination out there - but its tough to do on small tanks without a lot of DIY

but, sorry jesse no - i'm running both my icecap VHO ballasts on my 125 right now.

the scientist in me would love to do a MH/T5 combo like your talking and sunlight supply has a cheap T5 retro that would work well for you but........ being the huge fan of icecap that i am and the fact that to get the real impact out of T5's you have to have a quality ballast and reflectors the price goes up a lot this ice cap retro is awesome : but at nearly double the price of the sunlight supply one :(

http://www.reefgeek.com/products/catego ... 04426.html

as for VHO this icecap retro is basically what i run on my 125 in a smaller version:

http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem. ... uct=ICK242

but again PFO has almost the same light set just a little bit cheaper

and don't forget the merit of a high quality reflector - might just as well get all that light into the tank right??

when you do the upgrade you better buy sunglasses for your corals though -because with that shallow tank they may need them till they adjust - but no fear after that the glasses won't be a waste of money cuz WOW now your going to need them to look at your corals :)

karen - are you totally confused yet?????? :) sorry but you see that for every tank, every theme, every budget, every DIY ability - there is a different answer to the same question - sorry i can't just tell you this is the one to buy - it can be overwhelming
 

kosey929

New Member
johnanddawn said:
:)karen - are you totally confused yet?????? :) sorry but you see that for every tank, every theme, every budget, every DIY ability - there is a different answer to the same question - sorry i can't just tell you this is the one to buy - it can be overwhelming
J&D-

Confused, a little, but I think I know what to get now. When I first started looking at lights I wanted the MH/VHO combo on F&S, but wrote it off because it didn't come in the 30" size. Now that I know a 24" will be sufficient, I will probably go for it. I just better get my butt over to the store before the sale ends!!

I'll keep you posted.

Karen
 

kosey929

New Member
Well....I went to F&S yesterday and picked up the Coralife Aqualight Pro HQI/VHO 24" fixture. Got it home only to discover that it is more than 15" wide! Stupid me - never thought to check that. So we made the trek back today and exchanged it for the 30" Current Sunpod 150W MH/Lunar fixture for $30 more. It's very bright! J&D, I know you aren't a fan of this one, but after all of the research I've done online it's the only thing that was really going to meet my needs....although I would have preferred a combo light.

I also picked up the 900 wavemaker combo from F&S. Where should I put the different powerheads? Right now I have the two opposing ones at opposite ends of the tank and the slower one down lower towards the center.

Got a 15 lb. live rock with a great cave in it and resurrected the garage rock. It's starting to look like a fish tank!

Yippeeeeeee!!!! New tanks are fun. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Karen
 
Top