pH problem

[brose]

Thanks to everybody here for helping me out with all my many previous posts. I have a new problem as of yesterday. I bought some calibration solutions for my digital pH tester and calibrated it correctly. I tested my tank after calibrating and found my tank's pH to be 7.8. I cross checked this with the liquid test in the master test kit. It was 7.8. I found info on homemade buffers and tried it. Here's one of the many links I used:
http://www.hawkfish.org/infoctr/homebuffer.htm
After adding a couple TABLEspoons of that, I found exactly no difference.
Well, I should've dealt with one thing at a time because I also got some liquid calcium in the mail yesterday. It said to add 5mL twice a week. I added the 5mL. My tank got real real cloudy and within an hour, the glass was coated with a thin layer of hard chalky stuff (calcium i guess). I then tested it to see how much calcium was in there. I stopped dripping the reagent at 60 drops (and still wasn't close to turning the water blue but i didn't want to empty my reagent). The bottle said to multiply 15 by however many drops it took to turn the solution blue. This means I have well over 900 mg/L of calcium in my 24g tank.
Then I waited until the next morning to see if the tank at least looked any better. Well, every single LR in there is coated in a layer of white chalk and I have to rub it to get it off. I just tried one little spot. I wasn't about to try rubbing every part of every rock without checking with you guys. :whost Then I checked my pH again this morning using both tests and I'm down to a pH of 7.4! Scary. Like I said I tried a homemade buffer yesterday and nothing worked. What should I do? I just finished my first week of establishing my tank. Also I did the other tests and everything was zero all across. However, my ammonia test keeps just showing a cloudy white liquid, which isn't a color on the card.
What to do about the pH? Calcium overload? What's the deal with ammonia test? Also, should the tank be completely cycled before even starting a cleanup crew? I see several people on here start one early. I would appreciate as much input as I can get. Thanks

 

[brose]

Here's a bad pic of how drab the rock has become. You can't really see it, but that red coral algae is usual bright red and not so chalky red.

 

[AlexfromSATX]

I would do a water change to get the calcium down. Usually you have enough calcium mixed into the salt that you are using, Especially Oceanic salt! Ph at 7.8 is low, but nothing to freak out about. I started at 7.8 and it has slowly gone to 8.3. Remember though Ph does fluctuate at different times of the day Low over night and Higher towards end of day. Try to test things at the same time of day every time you test. the ammonia test is probably cloudy white because you have ALOT of calcium in the tank. as for Clean up crew I would wait until Trites & ammonia are zero and then do a water change (to lower Nitrates) and then add the clean up crew.

 

[reefman23]

pH fluctuates, but it also takes around 24 hours after adding it in order for it to show up on a test. I would use a product like Kent's Superbuffer-dKH to help raise your pH and alkalinity...BTW, what is you alk?

You add the Ca using a slow drip to allow for proper dissolving... otherwise the Ca will be supersaturated. Also, I suggest adding it an hour or soafter your lights go off. If you are having a hard time keeping a stable amount of Ca, you may want to try dosing Magnesium.

HTH,

Jesse

 

[brose]

Alex, yeah I figured ocean salt had enough. But I just wanted to add a little extra to try to make things a little better. Live and learn though. I wish the pH would stick around 7.8. That would be closer than 7.4, which is what it's at now. I guess the added calcium somehow lowered the pH even more. Thanks for the advice. I'll do a water change and wait on the cleanup crew. It sucks though... over a week into it and not a single sign of ammonia, nitrate, or nitrite.

Reefman, I'm definitely gonna take you up on that superbuffer. I'm ordering some from drsfostersmith.com now. I wish I could tell you what the alk was. I didn't buy an alk test yet. I'll get one there while I'm at it. Thanks for the tip on adding Ca. The bottle didn't say anything about how to add it. I'll try some Magnesium too, but would I have to buy an extra test for Mg or could I just add the amount that a bottle would say to add?

As for the layer of supersaturated Ca live rock that I have, should I physically rub all of the Ca off it or let time take it off? Should I also still let time take care of the 7.4 pH?
TIA

 

[TimSchmidt]

If you don't have any live stock I would take out the rock and rub it off and rinse it off, you will probably have another cycle but it seems like the water parameters are bit off anyways. From everything I've found dosing calcium WILL make the water more acidic and should be added very slowly (like a couple drips a second, into a high current area preferably). Do you have argonite sand? I thought this was supposed to help with buffering? I'm hoping someone will chime in and correct me here.

 

[AlexfromSATX]

Alex, yeah I figured ocean salt had enough. But I just wanted to add a little extra to try to make things a little better. Live and learn though. I wish the pH would stick around 7.8. That would be closer than 7.4, which is what it's at now. I guess the added calcium somehow lowered the pH even more. Thanks for the advice. I'll do a water change and wait on the cleanup crew. It sucks though... over a week into it and not a single sign of ammonia, nitrate, or nitrite.

Did you buy all of your rock and sand from an established tank? I can't remember if you mentioned that. If so you probably missed the cycle if it had one. You coulod always add a piece of raw table shrimp if you wanted to start a cycle, or some frozen food. Also, I didn't know this before I started but apparently you should buffer your top off water, before adding it to the tank, that way you don't get huge swings in your Ph. Someone correct me if I'm wrong on that.

 

[brose]

If you don't have any live stock I would take out the rock and rub it off and rinse it off, you will probably have another cycle but it seems like the water parameters are bit off anyways. From everything I've found dosing calcium WILL make the water more acidic and should be added very slowly (like a couple drips a second, into a high current area preferably). Do you have argonite sand? I thought this was supposed to help with buffering? I'm hoping someone will chime in and correct me here.

Yeah, I learned not to just pour a capful of calcium into the tank. Next time I add calcium, if I add calcium, I'll definitely drip it in very slowly. I'm gonna hope that the instant ocean salt should be enough. Also, yeah I bought fiji pink aragonite sand. I guess it didn't do its job. Well last night I tested it again and it was rising. It's come back up to 7.6. I have no livestock though, so I'll take it out and rub the calcium off. Thanks, Tim.

Did you buy all of your rock and sand from an established tank? I can't remember if you mentioned that. If so you probably missed the cycle if it had one. You coulod always add a piece of raw table shrimp if you wanted to start a cycle, or some frozen food. Also, I didn't know this before I started but apparently you should buffer your top off water, before adding it to the tank, that way you don't get huge swings in your Ph. Someone correct me if I'm wrong on that.

No, I bought the sand from the bag and the live rock precured. I tried adding a small shrimp in there about four days ago and still haven't seen a tiny indication of a cycle starting. I've tested every three days. I don't think I would've missed it in three days. That's a good idea on buffering the top off water. So far in a week though, I've only added half a gallon of distilled water and that was when I put a fan over the tank. Since I took it off, I have practically no evaporation. Is that strange to have no signs of a cycle in a little over a week?

 

[riftlaker]

yeah i think with a good amount of cured rock in there and just one small shrimp you couldve easily missed it go through and it wouldnt produce a detectible level of nitrate with most common kits. buffering the topoff water is a good idea it also helps to do it at night while the ph is dropping from the lack of photosynthesis (lights out), try this in the future to keep your ph stable you can experiment with the amount of buffer added to the topoff water and its effect on the tank water, just remember to do these types of changes slowly remember the rock is livestock, and you may have set it back a little with the calcium. unless you want to do nearly 100% its gonna be tough to do a large enough water change to get the calcium at a normal level because as stated above the salt in the new water already has the propper amount in it. just do a decent size change say 40% or so use the water you took out to slosh and scrub the calcium out of and off the rock a new cheap paintbrush will work good for this. then just keep an eye on it til it goes down to normal also add another shrimp or two and watch for spikes im not sure how much damage you may have done to your LIVErock and LIVEsand it may be mostly dead. good luck

 

[brose]

So, I could've missed the cycle? It's been about 2 weeks and no signs of anything. I just tested today. The people I bought my LR from recommended a solution called Cycle. Has anyone heard of it? I've seen it at Walmart. Would that work and make a quick cycle?
My pH is rising by itself. It's up to 7.9 now in mid-day. I tried doing a water change. It may've been closer to 30% just because I didn't have enough salt. I'm ordering more now. I also tried dusting off the rock and I don't think I had much effect. I think I'd have to scrub with a toothbrush or something to get all the calcium off. So far though, it doesn't look like any of my green and red coloration on the rock is turning black so I don't think it's dieing unless it could be a slow process. If I throw in a couple pieces of shrimp, how long would that take to kick in and show some signs? The water's still crystal clear and looks fine.
Thanks for the help. I appreciate any I can get.

 

[reefman23]

You dont need to use the Cycle product, nor should you add any shrimp... your LR and sand has plenty of bacteria already.

Have you had anyone else test your water for you? What are your readings?

Even if your tank HAS cycled, give it a week or two at least to allow everything to sort of stabilize.

Jesse

 

[riftlaker]

yeah stay away from all the miracle in a bottle snake oil stuff. but i think you may still want to add a couple of shrimp and see if you get any spikes as i said im not sure if your calcium overdose produced lethal levels and killed your bacteria or dramaticly reduced its levels in which case you need to put something in there to feed a new growing bacteria population..... either way it wont hurt to try it and see if you get any ammonia or nitrite spikes...

 

[brose]

I wish I could get someone to test my water for me. The only pet store in town (or within an hour drive) here is Petco and they suck at everything. The use a hydrometer to check salinity and they'd use the same test kit that I have that I bought from them. Petsmart is opening up in my town on May 20th but I doubt they'll be any better since they don't even do SW.
If my tank had somehow cycled already, would it show at least some amount of nitate? It's shown none at all since I began it. Is there any way at all to know if I missed my cycle? Or any way to know if my LR and sand still have living bacteria? TIA

 

[TimSchmidt]

Hmmm maybe you could mail some water in a thermos to someone here on the site :lol:

 

[brose]

Well, everything seems to be restoring itself. The pH is back up to 8.0. It looks like the LR is getting some of its color back and growing some algae. I'm thinking I better work on getting a cleanup crew within the next week to start taking care of some of the algae.

I decided to try another shrimp. All that it did was bring the ammonia up. I tested for the past 2 days. Ammonia is at 1.0 ppm and still no traces at all of nitrites and nitrates. So, I guess it cycled quick and fine.

One little question I have for everyone is this... I bought a hydor flo after reading up on it alot. I installed it on my MJ1200 to the pump outlet on the very top of the aquapod. I'm not sure if my 24 is too small for a hydor flo or what, because every time the hydor flo gets aimed downward, it blows sand out of the corner. Now I have one corner of the tank with very little sand in it. Any recommendations?

I appreciate all of the help I can possibly get on all of this stuff. Thanks