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Anonymous

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Hi,
I'm new in here and hate to be the bearer of bad news but Goniopora is one of the least hardy of all commonly bought corals. This is a beautiful specimen and I hope you have more luck with it then pretty much everyone else who has tried. The most common response by the "experts" is that we just haven't found the key to keep them alive for more then 6 months to a year - maybe your tank will. Very nice tank though, but mixing any LPS with zoa's and mushrooms isn't generally recomended either, once again sorry - I'm not saying it can't be done - just not natural. Try reading up on them and Keep reefing!
 

dragon79

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johnanddawn said:
Hi,
I'm new in here and hate to be the bearer of bad news but Goniopora is one of the least hardy of all commonly bought corals. This is a beautiful specimen and I hope you have more luck with it then pretty much everyone else who has tried. The most common response by the "experts" is that we just haven't found the key to keep them alive for more then 6 months to a year - maybe your tank will. Very nice tank though, but mixing any LPS with zoa's and mushrooms isn't generally recomended either, once again sorry - I'm not saying it can't be done - just not natural. Try reading up on them and Keep reefing!
what's the downside to mixing it in a tank with zoas and mushrooms? ill effects? or what? what makes it more "natural" ?? I too know know they dont live long in captivity, but I haven't really seen the yellow species, just the common brown, and green. I'm yet to see the purple species in fish shops. I wonder if they vary between colors in the life they live.
 
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Anonymous

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Mushrooms (ie coralimorphs) and zoas are both very prone to chemical warfare (zoas produce a toxin that can kill you!) - they mix reasonably well together but not with other corals like LPS's (softys and leathers - OK). They don't sting other corals but rather release toxins into the water that are meant to retard their growth - Allelopathic compounds. Carbon can be used in large tanks to reduce the effect but it's hard in a nano. Also it is not a very natural system as they come from very diferent parts of the reef. As far as colored gonopora - Roe's marine world has several colors - including purple - but i would not recommend them - If we can't meet the needs of a particular animal - don't buy it! Nanos, IMO should try to mimic nature at least a little so mixing corals from diferent areas is not good - similar species I mean. Also be advised that color is often very dependent on its natural environment - not only but yes including lighting.
 

incysor

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Mixing zoos and mushrooms and LPS is done all the time with no ill effects whatsoever. Very, very few people have a tank that's this strictly 'natural'. Nearly all of us have fish that come from entirely different oceans. I disagree very stongly that it's necessary to try to recreate a 'natural' reef in any tank, nano's included, although I will agree that researching critters/corals is essential before you purchase them.

Gonioporas, and alveoporas are beautiful, but most people can't keep them alive long-term. The bright yellow like the one in the picture is one that's been dyed, they don't occur naturally in that color.

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dragon79

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thanks for the clarification, I came up a bit dry on the web with finding the yellow species, and now I see why, lol. So they are dyed huh? Wait till Sandra hears this one, she was aware of the short lifespan, but wanted it in there to see how it would look in the nano as opposed to owning the brown or green. So with losing the yellow, will it end up turning brown or green in the future? (presumably it stays with her nano long enough)

Last final question here.....how do they dye them? Food coloring in a seperate tank over some months or so or what?

Sandra is very attracted to color, so she wanted it bad, even though I said and the guy at Tongs said it wouldnt live that long (6 months to a year)
 

incysor

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There are red gonioporas that are a nice reddish/purple, but it's not super bright.

I don't know how they go about dying them, but there are several types that get dyed more than others.

Cups, gonionpora, alveopora, are the ones I see all the time. Sebae anemones are often dyed. But I don't know how they go about doing it.

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Anonymous

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Incysor, yes it is done all the time but not without ill effects - alleopathic compounds are very real and do effect the long term health of certain corals. As are sweaper tenticles and other defence mechanisms that make some corals hard to keep in a nano. If one were to give the average LPS its due, say 6" all the way around to make sure it doesn't sting anyone else, it sure doesn't leave much room for other things. As far as natural you are correct tanks are not natural I was just suggesting (In My Opinion) that we should try to meet the needs of our corals as best as we can and placing a low light, low flow coral (say a mushroom) next to a high light, high flow coral (sucn as some LPS's and all SPS's) is just not trying to meet their needs. Sorry but people who buy corals with the 6 month attitude are a pet peave of mine. Sure I have lost corals over the years but I also have colonies that I had for 10 - 12 years that are doing great and have been fraged many times. With the availbility of frags these days buying wild caught animals from the reef that we know will die - is questionable. Some specimens will always only be available wild caught like LPS's but i just like the idea of sticking with captive breed whenever possible and shrooms, zoas, leathers, zenia, and other softies as well as SPS's are readily available today.
Also although that goniopora may be dyed it may not be - they do occur naturally in that color as well as purple see here - www.wetwebmedia.com/gonioporapix.htm
But there are definitly some unethical people out there selling dyed corals and anemones.
 

incysor

New Member
I wasn't stating that dyeing them wasn't without ill affects. Just pointing out the fact that it happens quite a bit in the industry and if you see something that's a nice gorgeous fluorescent color, it might not be natural. Most people I know like to know if a coral has been dyed so they can stay away from them. I've consistently and repeatedly stated that you shouldn't buy corals or critters without researching them first.

Yes alleopathic compounds are present and real. Carbon pretty much takes care of them. The last I checked folks weren't sure which species realeased them in the largest concentrations, or what might trigger a large release, etc... Saying that mushrooms and zoos shouldn't be kept with LPS because of these compouns is nonsense. Check tank of the month threads on RC, or pics of peoples tanks from any/all ofthe major sites, lots of people do this very effectively. Just because we're talking about a nano tank vs. a larger tank doesn't make it more of a threat. Look at the number of mushroom and zoo nanotanks all over RC, and nano-reefs.

Sweeper tentacles are a much more realistic threat, but if you're educated about your corals then you'll be aware of which ones have the long ones and which ones don't and it's generally just a matter of aquasaping to be able to fit them in. I'm talking about frags here, not full colonies, because we're talking nanos. I've also suggested more than once that someone remove something that's likely stinging it's neighbors. There are a lot of things that I think are inappropriate for nanos, that doesn't mean that I'm the be-all judge of what someone else should do with their tank. I'm on RC, reefs.org, here, nano-reefs.com, and my local board, and I haven't seen any sort of general consensus that zoos, and mushrooms can't/shouldn't be kept with LPS. A great amount of LPS is not particularly high-light, and definitely not high-flow, and therefor is great for nano tanks. I understand your pet peeve about folks that have the 6 month attitude, but there hasn't been anything written in this thread that should have given you the opinion that anyone here thinks that way.

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Anonymous

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Hey incysor - I think we agree more then disagree - education is definitly the key to success. I have a 125 mixed garden aquarium LPS's, SPS's, leathers, zoas, shrooms, and softies, and a couple clams (as I said in my first response - it can be done just a lot harder in a small tank). I use carbon and a protien skimmer and have a lighting and plumbing system that allows me to have a wide range of light levels and flow level to meet each corals need. Its just that in my present nano and many of the ones I've had in the past, (I had a 30 set up with nothing but a huge field of capnella last year) I've tried to be more specific with the corals. The one I have running right now is a zoanthid tank with a couple of soft frags and shrooms fragged from my 125. As soon as i can afford it I'm setting up a 20 gal SPS tank - just for acros. Nanos are awesome for this type of specialization. I will be leaving the LPS's in my 125 though where they have room to spread and grow :) just my opinion.
 

mikeguerrero

Active Member
Wow,

DJ I thought it too was going to be a rumble in the jungle. Especially since johnanddawn only has about 25 posts. To me that tells me he's just a lurker and not a foremost provider of consistent feedback like Incysor.

But I was like anyone that wants to argue with someone with 1605 post is worth listening also, so I paid attention to this thread...

Mike
 
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