Is your tap safe???

[davenia7]

Ok, so the debate should be kept respectful. Present an argument for or against... but realize that not everyone agrees with you... and results may vary.

In general, I ignore the bashing against tap water folks like me. Frankly, I like coastal living bc I get RO desalinated water from the tap. Sometimes they blend it with aquifer water to keep the pH up, but it isn't the same as storm water that's been filtered. The source of my water is a nationally ranked top quality water source, so I feel pretty comfortable using it. You will remember likely my algae outbreak recently, but I will attribute that more to not doing any WC's for 6 months in my 10 gal. than my tap water.

I will however give that in about 95% of the country, or more, you are not lucky enough to get RO from the tap and that well water and storm runoff alike will be loaded with chemicals and phosphates and nitrogenous wastes even. In those areas, I say, rock the RO/DI...

But, in my area, why would I throw money away when water is part of my HOA dues?

I reiterate, for the sake and sanity of the Mods... keep this debate nice...

 

[KoNP]

I use dechloranited/dechloraminated water from the tap, simply because RO/DI units are ludicrously expensive, and because I know several folk here who have successful reef tanks also using tap water. Something worth noting is the hardness of the water - it comes out of the tap loaded with calcium. Phosphates are either low or non-existant as well. Admittedly it means I need to stock up on phosphate remover and heavy metal remover just in case, but that's what they make these products for, after all.

When it rains I go and put my water change bucket out just in case but regardless of how long it's been raining for it always stops 5 minutes after I do that :cry:

 

[funkngroovy]

Your local authority that controls the water will have typical ananlysis info that you can get hold of. This will be different for every area. This may be tested at the source, and may not be accurate either. It won't take into account the water network, some of which are hundreds of years old.

Otherwise there are some basic steps you can take, you can test the water yourself for phosphate, Copper and nitrates, or take it to an aquarium to do this for you(best option).

You also MUST consider that if copper or galvanised steel pipes make up any part of your plumbing system, you are putting your livestock at risk.

Copper kills inverts quickly, but it can also kill them slowly by building up in your tank over time so there is no guarantee that if you use it once, it will be alright.

In short, it is no good for marine aquariums. There are alternatives. There is a filtering system that some aquarists swear by. I can't remember the name but if you do a search with an on line retailer you should be able to find it. But beware, we all know that there are lots of products that don't do squat!

Otherwise, some LFS sell RO by the Gallon, it's quite cheap if your a NANO NUT>

Hope this is helpful

 

[davenia7]

After some reading... I would think that in systems that have RO from the tap, less copper piping is probably used since RO will eat copper lines. I've looked in my attic and I don't have any copper piping, and I'm thinking that might be a code thing in areas with RO water from the tap. What is your take on that? If RO has a habit of not only picking up copper, but eating it to the point that pipes will corrode and bust... sanity would say that copper isn't used on the system. Now, this is not to say that sanity, if ever, reigns. But I do live in new construction, in a new area, with the new desal plant... so would someone be dumb enough to use copper lines along the way?

Also, at least in any other system I've seen, only the hot water lines are generally copper, since cold water through copper would sweat badly. Therefore, I would think that by merely using only the cold water, and then heating it in a bucket, the water would have less if no copper.

Also, would a Brita type filter remove copper? Where are my water quality folks?

My problem with buying from the LFS is, who really has time to go there every week and pick up water? And I live in a townhouse, so I don't have storage space for a bunch of water.

 

[funkngroovy]

Can't help you there. Water quality changes from place to place.

You will need to do the research as mentioned in my post.

It all depends on your location.


Eg Here on the Gold Coast Australia, we use water from dams that has been chlorinated, flurodised and who knows what else.

My house has poly pipes, my next door may have copper.

Nobody can say that your tap water contains this that or the other, you need to find out for yourself.

Forums are great, but you also need to put in the time yourself because you will always get several opinions here. You really need the facts for such an important issue as your water. Let us know how you go.

 

[TimSchmidt]

I personally need all the help I can get! LOL So I found in the long run for me it was actually cheaper to put the cash up front for the RO/DI unit only because I have the 90 gallon, the 12 gallon, and now my 20 gallon holding tank.

I agree that the price is quite a bit higher, but for me when I spend so much money on live stock I would hate to lose them due to a thing like water quality.

I tested my local water supply and my phosphates where off the chart. Among that I actually had detectable ammonia in my local water supply. Seems for me at least I would have quite a bit of work to do in order to use my local water for an aquarium.

I love this thread by the way. :cool1:

 

[davenia7]

I'm just trying to stimulate a healthy discussion versus some of the negative non-sense I've seen elsewhere on here.

I do regularly test my tap water with whatever tests I get my hands on. Where would I find a copper test kit? I really doubt some dummy would use it on my system bc of the type of water... but stranger things have happened. Then again, I would think that I wouldn't have reproducing nassarius snails all over my tank if that were the case since the biggest issue with copper is that it effects reproduction...

BTW, it does that in people too. That's another reason they limit its use in new houses on the cold water lines. FYI (men) There are IUD's they implant in women for reproductive limitation that is just a copper wire to prevent pregnancy.

Oh, and funk... I've been using my tapwater for 3 years with no ill effects as of yet.

 

[reing7299]

I've seen the RO/DI water at my local fish store which they sell in freshwater and premixed saltwater in either 1 or 5 gal containers or bring your own. To my knowledge my Milwaukee water isn't so great (although it was okay with my fw, but I know salt water is more iffy) so really its either fork out the cash for the RO/DI or fork out the cash at the pet shop. It really depends on tank size/quantity.

Since Tim lives in the midwest and has soo many tanks the RO/DI is a good option. You would think having the great lakes so near would help but i guess not (especially with the 'accidental' dumping).

But in general it seems to be a personal preference and comes down to where you live and what is affordable. I don't think anyone will ever agree.

PS: Any thoughts on pre-mixed saltwater at the fishstore... good/bad/meh?

 

[davenia7]

My fishstore, at least, mixes at 1.024. For my SW tanks, I keep the SG at 1.026, so, even if I bought their (EXPENSIVE) SW, I'd still have to buy some mix to raise the SG.

 

[TimSchmidt]

I'm a meh for premixed. It's convenient for small amounts I guess, but it doesn't seem to be for everyone as I don't like paying for someone else to dump salt in water with a power head. Plus then I would have to carry around water that weighs eight pounds a gallon up and down even more stairs.

I have TDS meter hooked up on the input and output of my RO/DI unit and on the input I get on average 254 ppm and on the output I get 0 ppm. So even if my tests were to come up all zero all that says to me is that what ever those 254 ppm are they aren't in my test kits therefore something I don't want in my tank.

Copper is generally used for parasite removal for fish, so having some in your water isn't the end of the world for most things, but the thing is that is there are small amounts it may take time to get a concentration that will be harmful.

 

[davenia7]

Straight out of the tap, without even dechlor... my TDS reads 7ppm. With Prime, goes down to 4ppm. Guess I'm lucky... now the question is... what are my 4 ppm? :cool1:

 

[reefman23]

I dont trust any other means other than my own salt (coralife) and my RO/Di water from my filter. I used to buy both "ro/di" and pre-mixed saltwater from my LFS and then one day I got a TDS meter! The TDS of my LFS's "RO/Di" water was hovering around 30ppm! The SG of the pre-mixed saltwater would vary from 1.020 to 1.027 not to mention that you never really know which salt they were using batch to batch. Everyone should check with their local water authority to see whether or not they use chloramines as a disinfectant in the tap water supply. Dont forget about heavy metals like copper that arent removed by chemicals and can build up to toxic levels in a reef tank.

I personally went with Buckeye Field Supply's 75GPD Premium RO/DI unit and added a second catalytic carbon stage to eliminate the chloramines in my tap. For those on a tighter budget, I would suggest Air Water and Ice's Mighty Mite RO/DI unit but keep in mind that it wont remove chloramines if you have them in your tap.

Any of the units from Air Water and Ice, Buckeye Field Supply, Spectrapure, or The Filter Guys are good units. The ebay units are generally lower quality including the housing and the filters used.

I would suggest at least reading this link---> http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-03/rhf/index.php

... and this link---> http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003- ... /index.php

HTH,

Jesse

 

[reefman23]

I forgot to mention, if you can find the water report for your area, you can send it to any of the companies that I listed above and they will match you up to the appropriate unit specifically for your tap water.

Jesse

 

[davenia7]

By all that I know, Prime takes care of the Chloramines. Says so on the bottle...
Now, if I'm wrong, or if they're liars... flame away.

 

[reefman23]

By all that I know, Prime takes care of the Chloramines. Says so on the bottle...
Now, if I'm wrong, or if they're liars... flame away.

Yes it definitely handles chloramines, but you may want to read this from the chloramine article that I posted...

"Other products, such as hydroxymethanesulfonate (HOCH2SO3-; a known ammonia binder15 patented for aquarium uses by John F. Kuhns16 (sold as Amquel by Kordon and ClorAm-X by Reed Mariculture, among others) can be used to treat chloraminated water because they both break down chloramine and bind up the ammonia.

The reaction of ammonia with hydroxymethanesulfonate is mechanistically complicated, possibly involving decomposition to formaldehyde and reformation to the product (aminomethanesulfonate; shown below).15 The simplified overall reaction is believed to be:

NH3 + HOCH2SO3- à H2NCH2SO3- + H2O

Even more complicated is the reaction of hydroxymethanesulfonate with chloramine, or chlorine (as Cl2 or HOCl). In this case, the products that are formed have not been established.

So are these useful products? That is, do they eliminate all toxicity from chloramine and provide none of their own, either by themselves or through their degradation products? I cannot answer that question. Almost certainly, using them is better than not using them if there is chloramine in the water. Is the toxicity eliminated for even the most sensitive larval invertebrates? Again, I don't know. Without knowing what the degradation products are, or without detailed testing on a variety of very sensitive invertebrates, I don't know how one would conclude that they are satisfactory (or not). Maybe such tests exist, and if so, I'd be pleased to hear of them. In the end, my recommendation is to remove chlorine and chloramine in other ways, such as through an RO/DI system as described below."


I dont use tap water simply because I do not know exactly what is in it and therefore I will not put it anywhere near my tank.

Also, take this into consideration. If you are one of those hobbyists that relies on the "natural sea waters" sold around LFS... Catalina water etc., and you get a batch that was collected during a red tide, guess what is going into your tank! With something as delicate and balanced as a reef tank, why risk it... that is my opinion.

Jesse

 

[TimSchmidt]

This is a great thread though. I am jealous of the <10ppm tap water. I imagine the water actually tastes good out the tap!

I guess a good moral for this story is....

TEST your water to see if it's ok. Personal opinions aside this is all theory unless someone takes the time to actually run tests on the water in question. Heck I test my RO/DI water time to time to make sure the thing is still working!!!

 

[funkngroovy]

Man, I have to think I'm lucky now to be able to collect NSW. I never even thought about all of the reefers that don't live near the sea.

Lucky for me, I can see the water from my bedroom so it has never been a problem.

Makes me think how committed some of you inlanders are.

My NSW has everything the tank needs calc is at 430-440ppm, trace elements are all there ect.

All I have to worry about is top up water.

I have got it easy!

Good on you all for your hard work!