hi new here....

[incysor]

uhhhhh how many fish can you actually keep in a 10 gallon??? I thought 1 small fish was ok and 2 was pushing it... I'm really confused... About how many inches or # of fish can you keep in a saltwater nano? Thx for all the help

Sorry but the inches-of-fish-per-gallon rule is kind of like the watts-of-light-per-gallon rule. It's a very crude rule that is basically useless. Adding fish to ANY aqarium is way more complicated than that. The kinds of fish, other tank inhabitants, the filtration, schedule for water changes and other maintenance are really what your determinants are. Most people can successfully keep 2-3 small fish in a 10g with little to no problems. Get yourself a filter that's rated for a 30g tank, make sure you've got decent flow through the system, and do regular weekly water changes and you shouldn't have any problem with 2 fish, maybe 3 depending on what fish you choose.

B

 

[Sugar Magnolia]

I wholeheartedly agree with Incysor on this. His recommendations are right on, but keep in mind that your fish selection should consist of the smaller species of fish, like the smaller gobies, clowns, blennies, etc. Basically any fish that won't exceed say, 4 inches is a good choice. I kept 3 fish in my minibow at one time. A small perc, a watchman goby and a neon goby. After the clown jumped, it was replaced with a six line wrasse.

Steer clear of tangs, dragonettes or scooter blennies (pod eaters) and the larger clowns (cinnamon, tomato, maroon, clarkii) and the larger wrasses.

 

[incysor]

www.marinedepotlive.com
www.liveaquaria.com
www.fishsupply.com

These sites are the first places I generally look for a decent idea on what a fish's requirements are. Most of their info is good. Not all of it by any means. If you're borderline on what they say, do some more in-depth research. Running searches on RC is a great way to get info.

B

 

[fishcrazee]

ok I made a list of things I would want for the nano and have alternatives to some in case they are incompatible. 1st the lighting will be a 96 watt with 2 50/50's and 2 10000K lights. It's the 20inch 96 watt quad tube aqualight. For livestock I think it will be as so...
fish:
1 6-line wrasse as 1st fish to help accomadate seconds
2 firefish after the 6-line is comfortable
(the 6-line wrasse is removable if needed as in I wont get it if theres a problem)
corals:
1 assorted mushrooms (red,blue,green)
1 green star polyp
1 colored fungia stony coral/short tentacle plate coral
1 glove polyp
inverts:
3 zebra hermits
1 scarlet hermit crab
1 electric blue hermit crab (maybe)
1 emerald crad
3 astraea snails
4 bumble bee snails
2 cleaner shrimp
live rock:
10 pounds from liverocks.com(the gulf kind)
more from lfs if needed to fill space, make more caves, etc.

alternative corals:
1 pumping xenia (red sea)
1 tree coral
also everything is removeable if needed except the liverock ( I really like the live rock...) Also I think I will need a skimmer so any suggestions on a small one that will fit on a 10 gal? Also is there any kind of urchin or star/brittle that I can add or is it already too much (I'm thinking it's too much... Thx for all the help...
I think I may get this in a long time from now because my parents may not allow me to make a $500 dollar nano... If so I'll make it when I grow up. Wish me luck? Thx again!!!

 

[incysor]

ok I made a list of things I would want for the nano and have alternatives to some in case they are incompatible. 1st the lighting will be a 96 watt with 2 50/50's and 2 10000K lights. It's the 20inch 96 watt quad tube aqualight. For livestock I think it will be as so...
fish:
1 6-line wrasse as 1st fish to help accomadate seconds
2 firefish after the 6-line is comfortable
(the 6-line wrasse is removable if needed as in I wont get it if theres a problem)
corals:
1 assorted mushrooms (red,blue,green)
1 green star polyp
1 colored fungia stony coral/short tentacle plate coral
1 glove polyp
inverts:
3 zebra hermits
1 scarlet hermit crab
1 electric blue hermit crab (maybe)
1 emerald crad
3 astraea snails
4 bumble bee snails
2 cleaner shrimp
live rock:
10 pounds from liverocks.com(the gulf kind)
more from lfs if needed to fill space, make more caves, etc.

alternative corals:
1 pumping xenia (red sea)
1 tree coral
also everything is removeable if needed except the liverock ( I really like the live rock...) Also I think I will need a skimmer so any suggestions on a small one that will fit on a 10 gal? Also is there any kind of urchin or star/brittle that I can add or is it already too much (I'm thinking it's too much... Thx for all the help...
I think I may get this in a long time from now because my parents may not allow me to make a $500 dollar nano... If so I'll make it when I grow up. Wish me luck? Thx again!!!

Nearly everything sounds good. When you order from liverocks.com, call them and make sure they understand your order is for a nano, so smaller pieces would be better. Some of the pieces I've seen people get from them and from tampabay have been pretty large. I would either put all the fish in at the same time, or add the wrasse in last, as they can be agressive depending on their size. I would make sure you have some kind of cover for the top with the firefish in the tank. They are very agile jumpers and open-top aquariums are a good way to lose them. A piece of eggcrate from the lighting section of home depot with a piece of plastic window screen material stretched over the top is easy and cheap, and will keep the fish in the tank. A close fitting canopy will do the same job, and look a bit more finished. I'd skip the emerald crab unless you start to get bubble algae. The rest of your critters should be able to handle a tank that size, and the emeralds are known to get agressive with pretty much everything once they get a bit bigger. I don't really think an urchin is a great idea in that small of a tank. They tend to eat coraline, which is fine if you have a large tank, but they can starve in a smaller one. They're also VERY touchy about water conditions, and minor fluctuations can kill them without any warning at all. They also knock stuff over like bulldozers, and it's nice not to have everything epoxied down in a nano so that you can rearrange as necessary. The electric blue legged will get pretty large and start knocking stuff over as well. Not that big a deal, but it can be kind of a pain to have to pick stuff up out of the cracks or from the sand bed, or from on top of another coral every day. What kind of filter are you planning on putting on the tank? Is this going to be a standard 10g tank? My wife is running an aquaclear 500 as a fuge, with a pico skimmer on it that is working out pretty well.

B

 

[fishcrazee]

Ok I've decided to change things on my list and they are to take out the electric blue hermit and the emerald crab. Also I decided to try all the fish at once aftre my tank is use to the bioload (Thx incysor :wink: )
new:
Ok I decided to get a DSB (deep sand bed) with a mix of sand and crushed
coral( or one or the other if there's a problem) I was thinking about 3-5 inches of the mix. If a DSB is bad in a nano then tell me. Yes incysor it is a standard 10 gallon. I was hoping to get a plastic cover that can be cut for the filter placing, airlines, cords, etc. The filter I plan on getting would be an aquaclear 110 (500) as well. I would like to know what you mean by using it as a refugium though. Also I still have no idea on the skimmer I want to use one that will fit onto the back of the 10 gallon and was wondering what kind would work on the back and does not require an airpump. Lastly I was wondering about wavemakers/powerheads and was wondering if aa aquaball powerhead with a FLO rotating deflector work for a wavemaker... ( I have no idea how to do anything else with waves and this seems the easiest). If this isn't possible please help thx!

 

[incysor]

Ok I've decided to change things on my list and they are to take out the electric blue hermit and the emerald crab. Also I decided to try all the fish at once aftre my tank is use to the bioload (Thx incysor :wink: )
new:
Ok I decided to get a DSB (deep sand bed) with a mix of sand and crushed
coral( or one or the other if there's a problem) I was thinking about 3-5 inches of the mix. If a DSB is bad in a nano then tell me. Yes incysor it is a standard 10 gallon. I was hoping to get a plastic cover that can be cut for the filter placing, airlines, cords, etc. The filter I plan on getting would be an aquaclear 110 (500) as well. I would like to know what you mean by using it as a refugium though. Also I still have no idea on the skimmer I want to use one that will fit onto the back of the 10 gallon and was wondering what kind would work on the back and does not require an airpump. Lastly I was wondering about wavemakers/powerheads and was wondering if aa aquaball powerhead with a FLO rotating deflector work for a wavemaker... ( I have no idea how to do anything else with waves and this seems the easiest). If this isn't possible please help thx!

The aquaclear 500 is fairly easy to modify to act as a refugium for that size tank.
Here's a link to the filter. If for some reason it doesn't work, go to www.bigalsonline.com click on filters and it's the third one down on the right column.

http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/pro ... 885&pcid1=

Adding this cuts back the flow to a more manageable level, and reduces the profile in the tank.

http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/pro ... ry_id=3153

My wife just siliconed the separators that come with the filter close to the pump it works with, and then added sand, live rock rubble and macro algae. She had room to put a pico, (or picolo, if you want to look them up), skimmer in there as well, although she put it in after the fact, and could have done a bit better job if she'd had it to work with from the beginning when she was glueing in her baffles.

This filter is pretty large and if you go with it and then wanted to add on another hang on type skimmer it would't fit easily, and would probably have to go on one end of the tank. There's some cheap jebo skimmers out there that are getting pretty good reviews from people. My boss has one that sits in his fuge and it does a very good job. Prism skimmers aren't bad for the money, and are pretty much self contained which is nice.

I dont' know anything about the aquaballs. I've seen the rotating deflectors and they seem to work pretty well.

B

 

[fishcrazee]

Ok I think I'll go with the Prizm Skimmer. It doesn't seem too big... and it isn't operated by an airpump/stone. For the refugium thing I stilll don't understand... was everything taken out and wasa made only for the purpose as a refugium? Also if that's a fuge then is there another filter that filters particles in the water? Lastly there's not supposed to be any carbon in the tanks right? The carbon filters out the micro/macronutrients, does the skimmer do that too? If so would I have to replenish the nutrients with a supplement like sea lab 28 or anything? Thx

 

[fishcrazee]

Just out of curiosity incysor but is this your wife's AC500 refugium setup thing? http://www.californiareefs.com/tank7reef.htm ( I found it on myfishtank.net) someone suggested to make something like that for their 15 gallon nano. hehe

 

[incysor]

Ok I think I'll go with the Prizm Skimmer. It doesn't seem too big... and it isn't operated by an airpump/stone. For the refugium thing I stilll don't understand... was everything taken out and wasa made only for the purpose as a refugium? Also if that's a fuge then is there another filter that filters particles in the water? Lastly there's not supposed to be any carbon in the tanks right? The carbon filters out the micro/macronutrients, does the skimmer do that too? If so would I have to replenish the nutrients with a supplement like sea lab 28 or anything? Thx

You'll probably want to skip the AC500 as a refugium if you're going with the prism skimmer. If you did both, you' have to setup the skimmer on one side of the tank because the AC500 takes up most of the back.
Yes everything was taken out of the AC500 in order to use it as a fuge. She's got a small filter floss pad in between the pump and the fuge section. Between that, and the picolo skimmer there isn't much particulate matter floating around in her tank. I think carbon is helpful, and I run it on all my tanks.
In my opinion the less things that get added to nano tanks the better. I add small amounts of calcium, strontium, and buffer to my top off water, and leave it at that for the small tanks. In all the forums/boards I'm on I haven't ever heard this sea lab product mentioned. It claims to do an awful lot of things, for one product. Personally I'm a little skeptical. I'd ask for folks experiences with it over on RC. If they're pretty postive thien I'd give it a try. Each of the blocks is supposed to be for 50g of water, so I'm not sure how you'd figure out the dosing for a nano, although depending on the bonding agents used to get the block shape, cutting it into fourths might be easy.

Just out of curiosity incysor but is this your wife's AC500 refugium setup thing? http://www.californiareefs.com/tank7reef.htm ( I found it on myfishtank.net) someone suggested to make something like that for their 15 gallon nano. hehe

Nope this isn't hers. Although hers is basically the same thing. This guy has a solid piece of plastic between the pump area and the fuge area. My wife just siliconed in the perforated separators that came with it. They slow the flow down enough that the sand isn't stirred up. She used a small amount of miracle mud covered with a layer of regular arragonite sand, some live rock rubble, and of course macro algae. Her picolo skimmer sits on the side with the pump I believe.

B

 

[fishcrazee]

ok I tried searching for the picolo skimmer on bigals and it's not there... Where did you get your? Also I like the refugium idea more than just a skimmer so I would rather get the fuge... Any other skimemr suggestions other than picolo that would work with both the AC fuge and fit behind the tank? Thx

 

[incysor]

ok I tried searching for the picolo skimmer on bigals and it's not there... Where did you get your? Also I like the refugium idea more than just a skimmer so I would rather get the fuge... Any other skimemr suggestions other than picolo that would work with both the AC fuge and fit behind the tank? Thx

Bigals doesn't sell them. I got Shannnen's off of ebay. Actually the one I got her was a coralife one that is the same as the picolo.

Here's one on ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... eName=WDVW

Cheaper.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... eName=WDVW

 

[fishcrazee]

Here is my new list of living creatures I would like in my nano... I added some more inverts and thats about it

fish:
1 6-line wrasse as 1st fish to help accomadate seconds
2 firefish after the 6-line is comfortable
(the 6-line wrasse is removable if needed as in I wont get it if theres a problem)
corals:
1 assorted mushrooms (red,blue,green)
1 green star polyp
1 colored fungia stony coral/short tentacle plate coral
1 glove polyp
inverts:
3 zebra hermits
3 red leg reef hermit crab
3 blue leg reef hermit
1 scarlet hermit crab
3 astraea snails
2 margarita snail
4 bumble bee snails
2 cleaner shrimp
live rock:
10-15 pounds from liverocks.com(the gulf kind)
more from lfs if needed to fill space, make more caves, etc.
alternative corals:
1 pumping xenia (red sea)
1 tree coral

If there are any problems here please tell me... Also would the liverock be considered cured when I get it? I know it may still have dieoff from shipping but thats about it right? Thx!

 

[fishcrazee]

I was just wondering about the AC fuge... If there's live rock and macros and stuff and they need light how do you give it light? I wanted to know before so I can slowly get my items and then have it all and try and force my parents to get me evrything else since I have all the other stuff hehehehe :wink:

 

[incysor]

I was just wondering about the AC fuge... If there's live rock and macros and stuff and they need light how do you give it light? I wanted to know before so I can slowly get my items and then have it all and try and force my parents to get me evrything else since I have all the other stuff hehehehe :wink:

Just out of curiosity incysor but is this your wife's AC500 refugium setup thing? http://www.californiareefs.com/tank7reef.htm ( I found it on myfishtank.net) someone suggested to make something like that for their 15 gallon nano. hehe

Check out the link here. Part way down is a pic with the light over the AC500. You can use the little clip on 7w, ones, (cheaper), or the 18w ones. Either should be plenty of light. My wife runs her fuge light opposite of her tank lights. When the tank lights are on the fuge light is off, then the fuge light comes on when the tank lights go off. I'd suggest painting the outside back of the tank either black or blue to cut down on bleed through light at night. This is something that my wife and I didn't think about when we set hers up and wish we had.

The rock you order, will for all intents and purposes be uncured. When you get it put it in the tank with your sand, run your filter, powerheads, and skimmer, but leave the lights off for a few days. Check your parameters after 3-4 days, then again at the week-10 day mark. Your params should start to look good after 10 days if there's little die-off, if there's more it may take a month to six weeks for the cycle to finish.
Leaving the lights off during this period will result in less of an algae/diatom bloom.

B

 

[fishcrazee]

On the liverocks.com website it says there will be an abundance of life and coraline... If there's no light won't they all die? Should I move the wanted hitchhikers to another tank or something and care for them until it gets fully cycled? Thx!!!

 

[incysor]

On the liverocks.com website it says there will be an abundance of life and coraline... If there's no light won't they all die? Should I move the wanted hitchhikers to another tank or something and care for them until it gets fully cycled? Thx!!!

If it's packaged well, (I'm sure it will be), there will be minimal die off. You'll still have a small cycle. You're probably not going to be able to catch most of the hitch hikers, or they'll be attached to the rock. Just put it in the tank with your sand and water and run the filter/skimmer without lights. Again, just depending on how much die off there is your cycle should last anywhere from a week to six.

B

 

[fishcrazee]

Ok thx but is there anything you would suggest to get rid of unwanted hitch hikers like bristle and fireworms and mantis shrimp? Also what would I do with them? Would I have to sell them to an lfs or do I kill em? Also is there anything I could keep in the fuge that I won't be able to in the reef? I feel like maybe keeping some invertabrate that is flashy and keeping it in the refugium after sticking a mesh plate over the water overflow. Thx!!

P.S.Incysor and that is a great picture os a neon gold and a midias blenny with a pistol?

 

[fishcrazee]

Ok I was searching through liveaquaria.com and saw that crocea clams grow to a maximum of 6 inches... Is this true? If so would I be able to keep one in a 10 forever or will I have to move it to a bigger tank or sell it back to my lfs? Also I was trying to put this: http://a1272.g.akamai.net/7/1272/1121/2 ... _71250.jpg as my avatar but it didn't work.... Does anyone know what fish this is? Also would it be ok, if it doesn't cost too much, to replace 2 firefish and put 2 of these instead? It looks like a firefish only blue and yellow... I like it's coloration more (no it's not a pearl jawfish it has a dartfish body shape...) Thx again!!!

 

[incysor]

Ok thx but is there anything you would suggest to get rid of unwanted hitch hikers like bristle and fireworms and mantis shrimp? Also what would I do with them? Would I have to sell them to an lfs or do I kill em? Also is there anything I could keep in the fuge that I won't be able to in the reef? I feel like maybe keeping some invertabrate that is flashy and keeping it in the refugium after sticking a mesh plate over the water overflow. Thx!!

P.S.Incysor and that is a great picture os a neon gold and a midias blenny with a pistol?

The only really good way I know of to get rid of bristle worms, fire worms, and mantis shrimp, isn't good for anything else you've got living on the rock. Bristle worms, and fire worms aren't really that big a deal. If you're really infested, you can simply try a pair of forceps, but in general unless they get big they're benificial detrivores. There isn't much I'd recommend for sticking in your fuge that isn't good in your main tank. I've seen people keep peacock mantis shrimp, but it would eat all the good critters in your fuge, and it takes a pretty decent sized fuge. I've also seen dwarf seahorses, but frankly they're a TON of work, and you have about 6-7 months of research to do on them if you want to try it. If you can find ORA bred/raised seahorses, one or two might be a decent choice. They do well in low-flow environments. I'd do some serious research on them though.

The pic is a a pistol, neon cleaner, and a bi-color. I appreciate the compliment. Even though it's not one of my better shots, it's one of my favorites just because it's funny.

Ok I was searching through liveaquaria.com and saw that crocea clams grow to a maximum of 6 inches... Is this true? If so would I be able to keep one in a 10 forever or will I have to move it to a bigger tank or sell it back to my lfs? Also I was trying to put this: http://a1272.g.akamai.net/7/1272/1121/2 ... _71250.jpg as my avatar but it didn't work.... Does anyone know what fish this is? Also would it be ok, if it doesn't cost too much, to replace 2 firefish and put 2 of these instead? It looks like a firefish only blue and yellow... I like it's coloration more (no it's not a pearl jawfish it has a dartfish body shape...) Thx again!!!

You could probably keep a crocea in your 10g under the 96w powerquad. This isn't really the best light for them though, and you'd need to change your light out every 6 months or so. You'll also need to dose the tank with DT's or another phytoplankton, which can be problematic in a nano because it's easy to overfeed a nano with this stuff. It can be done. My advice would be to wait until your tank has been up and stable for 6-9months before trying it. Then remember to change your lights every 6 months if you stick with PC lights.

In order to use the image as an avatar you have to past the address in the 'link to off-site avatar' field. The site doesn't have space to upload them at this time, so the upload field doesn't work.

The pic is a Helfrichi firefish. I think they'd probably do fine in a nano, but before I'd go out and spend $300-$400 for two of these I'd make sure that regular fire fish have survived in my tank for at least a year. I've got friends that simply can't keep them alive. It's disappointing enough at $15-$30 per fish, it's a whole other experience when you just dropped $400 on a pair and they jump out on the floor and die.

B