flatworm exit - some random thoughts and observations

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Anonymous

Guest
Again sorry for the long script but it may help someone.........
OK this summer some time I got flat worms (red planarians - the type that don't hurt anything but are quite the eyesore) from either a piece of live rock or a coral I introduced to my 125. I then, through bad practices of my own, introduced them to all my tanks. I was moving stomatella snails into my hex on rock so they got in there and I put a peice of rock from my 125 into my 20 so they got in there. After battling those buggers with basic husbandry like blowing them off the rock and vacumming for more then two months without much success I decided to try flatworm exit. I hit my 35 hex first cause the population in there was minimal. I followed the instuctions completely and then did a 30% water change and ran carbon. By the next day all of my montis had bleached to some degree (the acros were apparently uneffected), so I quickly raised the pendent and dropped the photoperiod. I am now about 2 weeks after treatment and all but one corals has fully recovered and that one is on the way to recovery. So friday night I decided to hit my 125. I removed as many of the "delicate" corals as I could and dosed the tank. To my suprise it was the "hardy" corals that took the hit this time. All of my mushrooms shriveled up and look like total crap, my purple tongans started to expell mesentary filiments and my gorgeous 8 inch elephant ear shrivaled up to about 3 inches at best. The other coral that was hit the hardest was my branching hammer - I fear it may not recover. So once again I reduced the photoperiod by cutting it in half and will add an hour every day or so to the white (actinics are still at full) till I get back up. Everything looked better today but the hammer and the and the 2 shrooms I mentioned.
conclusions, three possibilities:
1) the chemical in there itself effects corals - not likely as others have used it without ill effects.
2) the worm toxin hurt the corals - also not likely as the pop in my 125 was substantial but the population in the hex was very minimal and the water change and carbon use should have removed it.
3) the large water changes and the very heavy, increased use of carbon clarified the water very suddenly. Anecdotally, I believe this to be the cause. Although I use carbon on a semi regular basis the extent I used it to remove this chemical and the worm juice was heavy. In both tanks the corals that were most effected by the treatment were the lower light critters. I can not prove this of course but think that reducing photoperiod whenever using something like this may be a wise choice - just in case.
by the way - the corals I removed for safe keeping were returned and seem to be doind fine and the flatworms although greatly reduced in both tanks still exist :( Also none of my fish or inverts - snails, clams, or shrimp were effected in any way, although the fish are stressed and very fidgety???????
 

djconn

New Member
I've used FWE for about 2.5 years off and on with all my tanks and my general feeling about the stuff is it works. I followed the instructions the first couple times and I had basically the same outcome as you. All my shrooms and leathers retracted but within 2-4 days, they all had a full recovery. My hammer wasn't affected at all which is strange b/c yours is having trouble. I actually haven't lost a single coral due to using FWE which is also quite positive.

Like I said earlier, I followed the exact directions the first couple of times. Then I got a pointer from a LFS owner on how to do things a little differently. He recommended that I dose just a tad more than suggested initially and keep and eye on things, filter/skimmer running full bore. No water change and no carbon. Don't do anything to the tank for 2 days and just observe. After those 2 days, dose FWE again at full dosage. Wait one more day then do your 30% WC. I noticed that this scheme really seemed to knock out at the little buggers that survived the first time.

I've used this technique about a dozen times over the last couple of years in all my tank and I'm basically planaira-free. I see a few every once and awhile but and quick dose and they are dead.

In tanks with larger populations of flatworms, the toxins excreted when they die definitely will effect your corals. If your tank had lots of flatworms, then the toxins released was most likely to blame for your coral problems. You must have really had a planarian problem.

My biggest fear is that these planarians in our tanks develop some kind of immunity to FWE. I've heard this topic discussed on a few other sites and I believe it might be true.

Anyway, that is my experience with the stuff. It does what it says it will do.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
thanks dj, I needed the confidence boost in this product.......
I tried a variation on your tech but not as bold (my first couple treatments left me worried as you might expect) I dosed my 35 at 1.5 the rec and left it running for a little over an hour with the skimmer on but no carbon. I then hit the HOT mag with a fresh batch of carbon, only a small water change to suck out some dead ones on the bottom, but this time I left the lights off all day. The next day I ran the PC's at half photoperiod and the 3rd day I ran the PC's all day but the halide on half and now I'm back to full photoperiod. This time I had only minor color loss - nothing that would qualify as full blown bleaching. And as of tonight, I still see no worms remaining, but of course it only takes one of these buggers to start again. My recomendation to others would be that yes this product works but use with great care. The "worm juice" is very toxic to corals of all types. Whether it was the lighting (as I still believe) that bleached the allready stressed corals from the flatworm juice or not, after my second trial I would definitly suggest reducing the photoperiod for a couple days cuz my second treatment with the reduced light was far less stessful on the corals.
On a side note all of the corals in the 125 have recovered (even the hammer I feared losing) but I still have flatworms in there yet. Not enough to be noticed by casual glance but still there. I am going to try it again but don't have enough left for the 1.5 dosage, so I have to get some more :(
thanks again for the input!
 

Abarnswell

New Member
This is a very timely topic for me. I have a ton of these things now. I'll have to order some FWE, and in the meanwhile, I'lll siphon as many of them out as I can. That should help reduce the amount of toxins emitted when they die.

Wish me luck!!
 

Phischy

New Member
Iv'e got a 40 gal with just shrooms/zoas/softies and a flowerpot. I've had FW and these days I just dump 1/2 the container of FWE in the tank and use a powerhead to blast the nooks and crannies of my LR. Sometimes no carbon and no water change. I do suck them out as best I can first to reduce the impact they have but none of my corals have ever even retracted. I swear by the stuff and don't hesitate to nuke my tank when I see the little booger critters.
 

Abarnswell

New Member
In my tank I have:

- two Oscellaris Clowns
- one Yellow Watchman Goby
- Skunk cleaner shrimp
- 3 Pom Pom Crabs
- assorted snails and a couple Scarlet Reef crabs
- Pulsing Xenia
- Ricordea mushrooms
- Pipe Organ coral
- Star polyps

Do you think these specimens would do okay with FWE?

What about pods? Someone posted in a different thread that he thought FWE wiped out his pods.
 

Phischy

New Member
It's the toxin in the FW that'll harm your corals, so just make sure you vacume out as many as you can. Also use a powerhead to really agitate and blast into the hard to reach place so that the FWE gets everywhere, this'll help with zero re-occurance and as DJ said, dose it again a week later to blast any that survived as eggs and then hatched. That should cure your problems.
 

Abarnswell

New Member
Thanks, Everybody! I'll get some FWE and get to it. I can always reseed my tank later with pods.

I hate those darn flat worms! They're worse than algae.
 

djconn

New Member
Yeah flatworms suck big time. I'd just dose FWE and be done with it. I'd also do it again like 2-3 days later then do your big water change.

I've never noticed a loss in pods when using it. Weird...

Keep us posted on it.
 

Abarnswell

New Member
djconn said:
Yeah flatworms suck big time. I'd just dose FWE and be done with it. I'd also do it again like 2-3 days later then do your big water change.

I've never noticed a loss in pods when using it. Weird...

Keep us posted on it.
Thanks, djconn! That's good news about your pods. I will be ordering some FWE today. I'll post again after I've treated and let you all know how it goes.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
update and big loss:
DO NOT TAKE USING THIS PRODUCT LIGHTLY!
I do not blaim the product but i just suffered a huge loss using it. I took "normal care" as prescribed in the directions, changed 25 gal of water 2X and still lost 6 SPS corals and all 4 of my fish. I had a huge infestation that I allowed to go too long and then even though I used two canister filters with carbon and changed all that water it was a disaster. The fish died within 2 hours of the treatment. All my corals got very stressed and 5 acros and 1 monti did not recover. Today - about 10 days after the treatment luckily everything else has fully recovered so even though I'm extreamly upset with myself, it could have been worse.
The first time I treated this tank I moved many of the "sensitive" corals to another tank but this time I choose not to do that because I wanted to avoid cross transfer. big mistake!!! anyway just a warning it does kill flatworms - but be very careful with this product.
Other considerations both of my clams doing great no effect at all but the stomatellas took a huge population plunge. All LPS's not happy for a day or two but fully expanded now. Softies and leathers all shrunk, and shed but are fully recovered now. Shrooms and zoas similar story closed for a day or two but back to normal now. So Mainly the acros died. I have only 1 acro that was uneffected and 3 montis, and 2 pocillas that are doing fine.Well anyway, just another story about flatworms....................
 

sadielynn

New Member
sorry to hear of your loss john
would doing a dip been any better just curious on your thoughts as our stores have big flat worm problems so I have not bought anything from them at all
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
yea saddie i think a dip would be OK. The first time I did this to my 125 I put all of my SPS's in my hex for a couple days and then dipped them in a 1 gal mix with FWE before returning them to the 125. I didn't do that this time because I didn't want to get them back in my hex - now of course i wish i had. As a side note though those things are awefull tough..........looking tonight i see i still have a few in there. Now I'm afraid to do what DJ suggested and do a second dose right away.......... boy do i hate flatworms!!!!!!!!
But fortunitly I really only lost one coral as the rest either are frags from the hex or i have frags of them in the hex - it still sucks though because the one I lost was my favorite and 2 others had shown great growth since fragging them. The orange monti cap frag that i highlighted in another post had doubled in size and now its gone and my blue tort i cut in half and it finally started to branch and look like a real colony. :( - i'm really bummed out but as i said i guess it could have been worse when you think about the fact i have about more then 40 corals and 2 clams still alive in there
 

sadielynn

New Member
Oh John I am so sorry I wish that I could turn the clock back for you as you had/have such beautiful specimines in ALL your tanks :cry: tho I guess you are right in some respects that it could have been worse but it sucks just the same for you :cry:
 

EDGRAY

New Member
:sad: :sad: johndawn im so so sorry for your loss :cry: ........ men reading all this i hope i dont get does stupid flatworms...if so ill try to follow dj recommendation.... :shock:
 

reefman23

New Member
Sorry for the loss, johnanddawn, that is always difficult to take.

I think the problem lays in the fact that in such a large tank, it is difficult to remove most of the FW. As a result, much more toxins are released upon the large poulation's death, thus causing this sort of reaction.

When i treated my 16 gallon, it was small enough that i could remove all the rock, suction almost all the visible worms out, then put the LR back in and treat the tank...as a result, i could be a little more "reckless" with the product.

Again, sorry for the lossses, i hope the corals/tank will quickly recover.

Jesse
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
round 3
OK jesse i took your advice and declared absolute war on them........
i have a few days off for easter break so i removed as many corals as i could that were not nailed, down 2x dosed the tank, then i removed each piece of rock scrubbed it, and siphoned the gravel - imagine what a job this was on a 125???????? did a 50% water change, replaced all the rock let the tank sit for a day, dosed the tank with the corals, and then put them back in so far everone is very happy and good to go.........XXXXing my fingers this does it!!!!

here is a quick shot of part of one tank (it took 3 tanks - a 10, a 40, and everything i could fit in the figi, as well as a 35 gal garbage tub) with corals sitting in full sun in a window while i played with the tank.......




so far though i really like the new scape - i left out at least 30 more lbs of rock......... low profile and lot of sand now, i may have to take some new shots tomorrow.........
 
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