Fish for a 2.5?

[mihkaail]

Thanks incysor for the advice.

I was just afraid that the bicolour pseudo needs more swimming space. Cos, in the LFS and in the wild, The firefish dont seem to swim much, save back and forth from their bolt holes and hovering in the water column; so i though they'd need less space than the pseudo who seems actively swimming around. But, i guess i'm wrong.

About all the fish i've mentioned, i'll only take them IF i see they're eating well in captivity (prepared foods i mean). According to the LFS, on the phone, the biocellatus has been eating (they're quite a reliable LFS) but i'd still like to see it in action.

The sad thing about it is that they came in as a pair for 89 but the male got into a fight with a longnose hawk. When i arrived (after holding the pair for about a week), the guy told me to keep it with him a few more days at least till the male heals up. (* i think it's the male cos it was the bigger half of the pair*) Threedays later, i recieved a call saying he didnt make it (sad for me). Now, assuming the female is eating, i'm still hesitant that she may pine for her husband.

Although on the internet, many sources believe that breaking a pair wouldnt cause the remaining member to die, i still feel bad that she's lost a mate. Also, one of the main reasons i wanted them was to observe the "interesting pair behaviour".

Sigh, now i'm almost back at square 1. Again dunno what to do.

btw, incysor, i noticed you have no comments on clown gobies. Is that cos of their limited success in captivity or for some other reason? And do you think that they can be kept in a pair if not bought that way?

Thanks for the help again.

Cheers

 

[mihkaail]

Sorry, forgot to reply to skip

Skip, I would try the clown gobies but they dont seem to be regularly available here in australia. Also, i'm a bit put off by the fact that no one's had real success with them longterm.If you have, let us know.

Thanks.

 

[incysor]

I think a clown goby is actually the best choice...I mistakenly stated a citron goby would be good earlier when I actually meant yellow clown goby....I tend to get citron and clown mixed up because when I was starting out, and learning about stuff, the LFS, and even some of the websites used the names interchangeably which is wrong.

Lately here many folks haven't been having good luck with clown gobies or citron gobies. These are historically very easy, hardy fish, but lately they've all been dying, and it doesn't seem to matter if they're eating or not. This has led me to believe that one of the major suppliers has been getting them from someone that's using cyanide to capture them. The cyanide generally will stun them, but not kill them...However it destroys their digestive system, so while they might look healthy, and they may even actively eat, they can't digest what they eat anymore and they slowly starve.

Clown gobies are generally fairly inexpensive, and the definetely the right size for your tank. They also like to perch more than swim, which is again great for your tank. And they've got great color. As for pairs, it's probably not likely you'll be able to find a mated pair. In 2.5yrs I've never seen a pair offered. Singles will NOT pair up. If you put two singles in a tank, they will fight until one is dead. Every time. This is from my experience with trying to introduce a 2nd one into my 55g, and my bosses two attempts to introduce a 2nd one into his 180g. That said, fish sometimes will not fight as much if they're incredibly crowded...That's why 20 clowns in a 10g don't fight. So who knows? Maybe in a 2.5g they'd be crowded enough not to fight. I wouldn't suggest it though.

B

 

[mihkaail]

Thanks incysor.

I think if they fight in a 55, TWO would fight in a 2.5. Maybe i should put in a dozen or so

Anyway, wanted to originally have just sexys (maybe 3-6) but after seeing their $60 pricetag, i decided against it. If the LFS can get what they called "Glass Scavenger Shrimp" again this week, then i'll get those in the same quantum and forget about the fish. They look a little like ghost shrimp; and, like i read somewhere on this site, shrimp arent really a bioload hazard.

So, what do you think of the biocellatus, do you think she'll die now her husband has passed?

 

[incysor]

Thanks incysor.

I think if they fight in a 55, TWO would fight in a 2.5. Maybe i should put in a dozen or so

Anyway, wanted to originally have just sexys (maybe 3-6) but after seeing their $60 pricetag, i decided against it. If the LFS can get what they called "Glass Scavenger Shrimp" again this week, then i'll get those in the same quantum and forget about the fish. They look a little like ghost shrimp; and, like i read somewhere on this site, shrimp arent really a bioload hazard.

So, what do you think of the biocellatus, do you think she'll die now her husband has passed?

I doubt that the female will die due to the male croaking....But as a whole they don't have a great survival rate even in large tanks because they generally only eat by sifting stuff out of the sandbed. There doesn't seem to be enough in the sandbeds of even large tanks to keep them alive in the long term.

B

 

[fireFISH]

Thought i'd throw in my two sense regarding the clown goby. I've had in one in my 20 gallon for about a month now, and although your tank is considerably smaller than mine, i still think a clown would be your best bet. Mine rarely moves more than a few inches from a rock with some yellow polyps on it. He usually just perches at the high point of the rock, or scoots around the outter edges of it. I've found so far, that he likes frozen brine shrimp the best. If a clown goby is the way you're going, i hope this has helped.

 

[incysor]

When I had the one in my 55g, it ate pretty much anything. If you can get the store folks to try mysis, or flake or something other than brine you'll have a better idea of whether it'll live in your tank. Nearly everything hits on brine, but brine is the nutritional equivalent of popcorn, so you need to make sure it'll hit on something else.

B

 

[mihkaail]

Hi, thanks firefish and incysor.

Like i said, would consider a clown goby but they dont seem to come in much. Maybe i'll wait till one does come in. Incysor, do you think i have a chance with the twinspot if she eats frozen mysis/brine? What about the mandarin? Would be lovely to have a mandarin in a 2.5 dont you think.

Incysor, you had a fridmanii before right, did he do much swimming or just hover around like the firefish do? Wouldnt want to have the chromis just circling the tank again and again like a shark in a 120gallon.

Also, whats this about all the clown gobies commiting suicide? Wouldnt really want that happening. And, i must agree, they are real cute.

Thanks again for all your help.

 

[skipm]

PLEASE don't even consider trying to keep a mandarin in a small tank. First of all their body size alone indicates too much of a bioload for a 2.5. Second a mandarin needs lots of LR and a very mature sandbed in order to get enough to eat, they mainly eat pods off of the LR and out of the sandbed. If they were to eat any prepared food at all it would not be enough to sustain them w/o the live food that they continually forage throughout the day.
Ask the manager at the fish store and see if they can get a clown gobie in for you, they buy the fish they think will sell, maybe they don't think clown gobies would be a big seller so they don't stock them. There are a couple of other very small gobies like the high finned red banded gobie, the yashi hasha shrimp gobie and I saw one today called a panda gobie, these are 2 inches or less in length (they are very narrow so there isn't alot of bioload from them, the length is slightly deceiving). Talk to your LFS manager and see what is available that isn't too cost prohibitive.
You also mentioned sexy shrimp, there are other small shrimp that may be available in your area that aren't as expensive. Keep looking and don't rush into anything without checking to see if it is compatible with your tank. Skip

 

[mihkaail]

Hi Skip,

Thanks for the advice, but i have to disagree with you about the mandarin. I had one in a 12gallon long for over 2 years and fed him only mysis, brine, tubifex. There was definately not enough pods for him, but i made sure he was eating frozens before i got him.

About the clown gobies; Aquariums here get their list of available stuff on wednesday. Then they order what they think will sell. I tried to look for clown gobies but they werent on the available list so they cant be ordered in this week.

Concerning shrimps: the sexys are amongf the cheapest, apart from the "scavenger shrimps" and the harlequins, they're lowest price. For some reason shrimp are killer here, a normal skunk cleaner retails for $120+++.

Was just thinking about harlequins, but i think they're just too much bioload due to the fact that they need live starfish. The starfish would die slowly while being eaten, rot and mess up the water chemistry. Any additional info on these guys?

As for the Yasha Hase and hi fin banded gobies, if i saw that, anywhere, i'd reserve it on the spot! Too bad they dont come in here. I asked the manager, and showed him the pic in Axelrod's and he was equally amazed at the beauty of them; but has never seen them before.

Sigh. Thanks again guys. This is messing up my uni work. Can barely think for half an hour without something like "maybe a blenny" going through my mind.

 

[incysor]

Hi, thanks firefish and incysor.

Like i said, would consider a clown goby but they dont seem to come in much. Maybe i'll wait till one does come in. Incysor, do you think i have a chance with the twinspot if she eats frozen mysis/brine? What about the mandarin? Would be lovely to have a mandarin in a 2.5 dont you think.

Incysor, you had a fridmanii before right, did he do much swimming or just hover around like the firefish do? Wouldnt want to have the chromis just circling the tank again and again like a shark in a 120gallon.

Also, whats this about all the clown gobies commiting suicide? Wouldnt really want that happening. And, i must agree, they are real cute.

Thanks again for all your help.

While it might be pretty to have a mandarin in a 2.5, they're just not a candidate. Eating prepared or not. I had a neon dottyback, not a fridmani, (orchid), but all the dottybacks are very similar in temperment/actions. It swam around all the time. They don't hover much.

The clown gobies aren't committing suicide, they just slowly seem to starve to death, regardless of whether they eat or not. This seems to be a recent development in our area, (Texas), so folks in your area may not be having the same issues. I honestly think it's because one of the main suppliers to our area is getting the shipments from someone using cyanide for capturing. In the past these guys have been bulletproof. Great eaters, easy to care for, and tough as nails.

I think a mandarin or a twinspot will die if you put one in this sized tank. Even if it's eating prepared foods in the store, I still don't think they'll survive. These guys both constantly forage for food, and while it's great if they can suppliment their diet with prepared foods, the majority of their diet will still likely need to be copepods, or other sand bed critters. Feeding once a day probably wouldn't be enough. If you start trying to feed 4-5 times a day, you're likely to have too much buildup of waste in that small a nano. I think a clown goby, or a red headed goby are your best bets for a tank this small. Here's a link to a pic of the red headed one. Maybe you'll have more luck with them locally.

http://uri.sakura.ne.jp/~dd/g/eg-067.htm

B

 

[mihkaail]

[
While it might be pretty to have a mandarin in a 2.5, they're just not a candidate. Eating prepared or not. I had a neon dottyback, not a fridmani, (orchid), but all the dottybacks are very similar in temperment/actions. It swam around all the time. They don't hover much.


B

Incysor, thanks for the input. I would consider the red head a candidate but they're from the carribean/western pacific region and are therefore not available here. The same goes for neons.

You have said that the dottyback "swam around all the time", doesnt this make it not a good idea in a tank my size? I just thought that a fish that rock-hops or hovers would do better with the cramped quarters (just as great danes do better in apartments than greyhounds). Just what i thought though. I also realised that neons get a lot bigger than bicolours or magentas.

Okay, i'm very tempted by the clown gobies. Now just have to wait for the LFS to bring them in. The remnants i saw from the last batch they brought in were in a half 12gal long holding tank (there were three or four) and they just cutely stayed on a small piece of lava rock and a branch of staghorn looking dead rock. No fighting, chasing or quarreling apparent; although their fins each had one or two bitemarks.

I think if i can see them in that way again, might try a pair?

Incysor, also, why do you say even a mandarin eating well shouldnt be in a pico? Do you think that frozens dont provide it with all the nutrition it needs?

 

[mikeguerrero]

Incysor,

I read your response to the Yellow gumdrop. And will agree that they are tough fish to keep, regarding the eating.

I lost my first one to ick, my fault and the second one I have is super hardy, took him over 2 months before he started eating flakes.

He had depleted the copepods and had no choice but to eat flakes. He also will take mysis and nothing more.

My wife named him Conan, and since I heard about the luck on these little guys in Texas, I thought I'd offer you this.

If you like I will ship Conan out to you and get me another, they are very cheap here in California, just 5 dollars.

All you pay is just shipping. I can package him at my LFS so he gets Oxygen and all that good stuff.

I know that Conan would be happy with you and your wife.

If you follow my old threads and my new thread today, you'll see pictures of Conan.

Let me know if you'd like him to join your family.

Mike

 

[mihkaail]

Hi mike

I just wanted to say that it's very nice of you to offer Conan to people. There should be nmore nice people around. Just asking, by yellow gumdrop, you mean yellow clown goby, right?

Secondly, how did you train him to go for flakes? Did he just eat them when they passed by him in the water column? And what are his tankmates? Hope he doesnt have any food competition.

 

[mikeguerrero]

Hi Mikhail,

Thanks for the kind words, and just to let you know, I would normally not offer Conan to anyone. The reason I would offer Conan, is that Icysor is really big on this board. What do I mean by that? Simple he's kinda of like our resident Doctor on the site.

If we ever have a question we can count that he'll respond or give us a link that will have the answer.

Since I've been on this board back in November, he has been very informative and friendly. He also has a natural love for fish like most of us here. So I would feel comfortable sending Conan his way, since there was a problem with Clown gobies in Texas.

This is what makes nanotank better than other sites, we generally care about the well being of our tank mates and are genuine with each other.

Regarding his feeding, I took a big chance that he was never eating flakes. But he just started, you have to be patient in this hobby.

Hope this sheds some light..

Oh yeah, he's the only one in the tank so far but has had tank mates in the past and he did okay.

Mike

 

[mihkaail]

hi

I still think it's awfully nice of you to do that kind deed.

Anyway, more importantly; just called the LFS, they've got some yellow coral gobies in (thats what clown are called here) as well as a pair of "painted coral gobies". Apparently, (like the last time i saw this), the clowns are doing fine in a tank together. If they really are (am going down tomorrow), i might get a pair for the tank.Will, as always, make sure he's eating first"

Also, concerning the "painted clown gobies", if they're obviously a pair and are (i'm thinking) actually just green clown gobies, then i might take them instead. The pair bond would have formed and there should be some "interesting pair behaviour" that i was originally hoping to see in the Biocellatus Gobies.

Anyway, do these guys hide a lot? Wouldnt be that nice if i get them as my feature (and only) fish only to have them perpetually behind the rock. Once i had this problem with my feature (And fave) fish, a golden angel (centropyge aurantius). It was only when i decided he wasnt showy enough and bought a majestic tiny adult that he started to show his fins.

Anyway, looks like i'm getting fish tomorrow! Hope this is a compromise for everyone. They're small, relatively inactive fish that wouldnt be too straining on the system.

As a final thought, what is "painted coral goby" means a shrimp goby like a Yasha or a Hi finned banded? Then they're mine from the minute i see them (never mind the price tag; i can starve for a week to have a beautiful tank).

Will update you all on this thread and my "2.5 Update" thread.

A big Thank You to all who've contributed to this thread. Please give me some pointers on my other aforementioned thread.

 

[mihkaail]

Heya

Just got back from the LFS. The yellow clown gobies came in a group of five. Only one showed signs of pugnaciousness (and only towards one other individual). Also a pair of green clown gobies came in, but they were much smaller and thinner than the yellows.

At least three of the five yellows ate shrimp pellets (when they started to dissolve). Chose the two which kinda hung together and were no part of the fighting. The nice LFS guy, Ryan, told me that i could take them then or let him hold them a week more. They only came in yesterday and therefore i let them hold the pair a few days at least, just in case. Thats why i buy from (albeit slightly more pricey) small LFS compared to giants like Pets Wonderland and Bates Pet Paradise (similar to the US petco). Unfortunately, there still isnt a guarantee of how many days the fish lives. Once it's left the store, no refund (although i think if its a real good reason...)

Asked bob real nicely and he let me have them for $22 each (down by $10); really nice people. Anyway, will leave them at the LFS in their own private tank and on monday i'll check on them. If theyre eating fine and no fighting at all, then i'll take them home.

 

[mikeguerrero]

Are you getting the yellow pair of gobies or the green stripped pair?

Mike

 

[mihkaail]

Hi mike,

Ill get the yellow ones (sorry i didnt make that clear) cos they were the ones actually eating. The green ones (albeit a pair), didnt show any "interesting pair behaviour". They were also much smaller (i assume harder to feed due to smaller, non pellet accepting mouths) and shyer. They were also scarily thin. The main reason was still that the yellows were eating.

On a more interesting note, i saw the biocellatus (twinspot) goby actually chasing a group of humbugs from some pellets on the bottom of the tank. And as the pellet dissolved, she was ravenously eating it. Diving her head into the glass tank floor to get the pellet fragments.

I'm also thinking of getting a sacrophyton (it's a frag that broke off and it's edges are turned upwards). Please see my thread (2.5 Update) on the pico section and leave some comments.

 

[skipm]

I am happy for you that you found some suitable fish for your tank. I didn't realize what an endevour you were taking on trying to find the fish we recommended. The yellow clowns should make themselves the center of attention in your little tank. Good luck, Skip