First Nano Effort...

JeffDubya

JeffDubya

New Member
So, I want to get into marine tanks. I used to keep one about 12 years ago. I know there is a huge learning curve involved, but right now there is SO MUCH information, I am starting to lose interest! I'm sure I sound like a bit of a whiner, but I have no local fish store and I am visiting over 10 sites like this trying to get information, and I end up being more confused with each visit.

Here's what I know.

(1) I want to have a marine tank
(2) It's not going to happen overnight
(3) It's not an inexpensive hobby

And that's it. I can't figure out what size tank I want, though for my first, I think 25-29 gallons would be fine. I plan on using live rock, live sand and some biomass (I have been reading about raw shrimp?) to cycle the tank. Then I am going to add snails, crabs and shrimp for cleaning... and then...

Well, again this is where I get confused. What lights I buy is dependent on what corals I want. But I don't know what corals I want, other than Frogspawn. Or do I? :))) You folks keep throwing around acronyms that I can't follow, even with keeping your "Reef and web related abbreviations" page open at all times.

I've purchased three books. All three say some things the same, and directly conflict with others. Just like this website does with other web sites. Is there a really solid road map out there somewhere I can follow? It's like cooking - I need a recipe and I can make make magic. Once I have cooked the same recipe a dozen times, I can improvise. I need a marine tank recipe.

No, I don't want my mommy. But I'm rambling, so I'll stop and go take my meds. Hopefully I haven't completely embarrassed myself with this post, but I'm sorry - I'm truly frustrated.
 
Dickie52

Dickie52

New Member
Relax.....it sounds bad, but everything follows simple steps, one at a time. You are so right about the many different ways of doing things, but there are still some solid rules of thumb.

First pick out your tank, filter system and lights and then take it from there.
 
skipm

skipm

Moderator
Staff member
First of all :welcome to nanotank!!

It sounds like you have the idea on where you need to start. As far as confusing acronyms just ask and someone will clarify what they mean, we didn't start out as experts either. So pick out your tank size and location and fill it with saltwater (or mix it in the tank). Since you said you have no LFS (local fish store) you will more than likely be ordering your LR (live rock) and LS (live sand) from an on-line vendor. That being said, no matter what kind of LR you buy it will have some die-off and will go through a cycle so you can forget about adding the shrimp to feed the cycle. You will need to have test kits for ammonia, nitite, and nitrate. After the ammonia and nitrite have risen and have fallen back to zero the cycle has completed. At this time you can begin adding your cleaning crew (snails, crabs, etc.). You should also have your lights by this time and can start turning them on, most of us have our lighting automated with a simple timer. Since the only coral you mentioned was a frogspawn I will say that most people keeping them are using PC lighting (power compact fluorescent), for a tank in the size range you mentioned one with 2 65 watt bulbs will be fine. If the fixture has independant controls for each bulb get 1 actinic and one daylight bulb. If it has a single control for both bulbs either use the same combination or you can get 2 50/50 bulbs (50% actinic and 50% daylight). You will also need something for flow in the tank, this can be a powerhead (one or multiple), a hang-on filter, or if you decide on using a sump the return pump will also fill this role. So a quick list to get you started is:
1 Tank
2 Saltmix
3 Test kits
4 Something to check your salinity (hydrometer, refractometer, electronic tester)
5 LS and LR
6 Lights
7 Something to create flow
8 A plan on what you are going to keep as far as fish and corals because alot of
your decisions will be based on the needs of your tanks inhabitants.

Remeber there are no stupid questions. I too am a member of quite a few of the boards and I would say you have found one of the friendliest ones there is right here. Due to the size you may not get you questions answered as quickly as the bigger boards but you will get good information here. Good luck and I look forward to hearing from you, Skip
 
JeffDubya

JeffDubya

New Member
Thanks. I'm not too embarassed the morning after, which is good.

Anyone have an opinion on a Nano Cube, modified with nicer lighting?

And speaking of lighting, WOW this is an amazing change from when I kept a tank. And we're only talking 12 years ago or so. At the time, Metal Halide pendants were really super top of the line for folks with huge reef setups. Looks like that hasn't changed much. However with my tank, I only had three VHO bulbs and one blue actinic. Now there is VHO, CF/PC, and HO - not to mention moon light LEDs. Some hoods even have a MH or two in them ad have to be suspended off the glass for heat reasons.

It's actually pretty cool. But I didn't expect to re-learn everything I know. Well, at least I know something about the nitrate cycle and the fish, right?

Anyone have opinions on current simulating powerheads? I'm a marine enthusiast and avid scuba diver, so I have seen the Northwest version of these critters in their natural habitat, so this makes a great deal of sense to me.

So, at the end of this particular ramble, let's talk filtration. The first thing I considered was a cannister, simply because this also is technology that has come SO far since I kept a tank. But on some other boards, the answer was an equivocal NO. In fact, I have been told for a smaller (under 30 gal) tank, all I need are lots of inverts and some power heads to move the water, nature will take care of the rest. (Provided I am using the live rock/sand combo)

I have also read variations on the amount of live rock/sand I need. I *think* it used to be one pound per gallon. Is that right? And as far as substrate, I can't remember if it was one or two inches. Two inches seems like a LOT to me, but like I said before, just give me the recipe and I won't screw with it.

Thanks for the welcomes.
 
JeffDubya

JeffDubya

New Member
As for slower responses, I'm fine with that. I really am so busy that I should only be checking in the morning and then at night anyhow. This is a bad time of year for me to "fixate" on something like this, if you know what I mean.

Besides, most of the "quick" responses I have seen thus far (on other boards) are crap. The responses I read this morning were obviously insightful and well-thought out. I guess I am kinda looking for a group of folks who can (and are willing to) hold my hand through this process a little. Especially with the lack of a good local fish store, I am gonna need all the help I can get.

First, I need a tank.

Let me say about a tank... I have seen photos on this board and others with people who have reefs and mini-reefs that look like science experiments. This is not meant as an offense if this is you. Everyone has their own esthetic goals. For me, I want this tank to be an ART piece. I am looking for a nice(er) finished stand, and some kind of hood to hide all the nastiness. In fact, I went out last Saturday night to the pet stores I *do* have around here, practically with money burning a hole in my pocket. They were ALL carrying All Glass products, specifically the "cabinet wood" and "solid pine" varieties. To me these looked el-cheapo. No one had the more upscale stuff.

I asked about the nano above, this obviously fits ONLY the esthetic need. However, from what I am told, unless it is modified, it's probably got kinda lame guts. Today or tomorrow I am hoping to call that "Chris" guy at nanocustoms.com JUST TO SEE if maybe one of these might be a good place to START. I wouldn't be interested in a 12 gal, but the 24 gal seems intriguing. Some people hate em, some people love em.
 
JeffDubya

JeffDubya

New Member
Oh, one more thing... please help with the following definitions

Softies - Soft Corals
Zoos - Zooanthids?
LPS - ?
SPS - ?
 
S

sadielynn

New Member
JeffW said:
Thanks. I'm not too embarassed the morning after, which is good.

Anyone have an opinion on a Nano Cube, modified with nicer lighting?

And speaking of lighting, WOW this is an amazing change from when I kept a tank. And we're only talking 12 years ago or so. At the time, Metal Halide pendants were really super top of the line for folks with huge reef setups. Looks like that hasn't changed much. However with my tank, I only had three VHO bulbs and one blue actinic. Now there is VHO, CF/PC, and HO - not to mention moon light LEDs. Some hoods even have a MH or two in them ad have to be suspended off the glass for heat reasons.

It's actually pretty cool. But I didn't expect to re-learn everything I know. Well, at least I know something about the nitrate cycle and the fish, right?

Anyone have opinions on current simulating powerheads? I'm a marine enthusiast and avid scuba diver, so I have seen the Northwest version of these critters in their natural habitat, so this makes a great deal of sense to me.

So, at the end of this particular ramble, let's talk filtration. The first thing I considered was a cannister, simply because this also is technology that has come SO far since I kept a tank. But on some other boards, the answer was an equivocal NO. In fact, I have been told for a smaller (under 30 gal) tank, all I need are lots of inverts and some power heads to move the water, nature will take care of the rest. (Provided I am using the live rock/sand combo)

I have also read variations on the amount of live rock/sand I need. I *think* it used to be one pound per gallon. Is that right? And as far as substrate, I can't remember if it was one or two inches. Two inches seems like a LOT to me, but like I said before, just give me the recipe and I won't screw with it.

Thanks for the welcomes.
Click to expand...
No need for embarrassment we have all been in your "shoes"
There are many who do keep the nanocube with upgraded lights I do not have one therefore offer no opinion on them other than they do require mods so it may not be the best option for you, as you could take any off the shelf tank and build from the get go as you want it .....And I know that you have heard this before try to get an idea of the corals that appeal to you , then choose your lighting .....
The lights also offer confusion for most but the rule of thumb is going for a high par , tho the other stuff such as watts per gallon go hand in hand with it in my opinion .
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant ... e=Lighting

http://www.aquarium-lighting-guide.com/
as for the moon lights I have read that this will help with spawning , it hasent done that for me , what it has done is allowed me to observe the tank at night....actually really cool to see .
the next explains the cycle and perameters
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php
power heads offer the benifit of water move ment in multipule directions if you have an adjustable flow director , this helps break the surface and allow for good oxygen exchange . It also helps with stablizing the ph. And with algae control.
Now for the filtration yes the cannister is good if you do everyother day maintince on them , if not they will be a nitrAte factory...
a simple hang on back (hob) filter can be modded to a fuge down the line provided the filter is big enough , it also is easier to maintain , change the medium ect , and relitively affordable .
Now onto the sand I have in our 2.5 gallon and the 7gallon aprox 2.5 inches of sand in our tanks it allows for the rock to be placed on it and stablize it on that by having it packed around it ........it also allows for some sand sifting creatures to hide and "build " their homes in it ....
The rock it is still 1-3 lbs per gallon but the way we did ours for the 2.5 and 7 gallon is we started with 5 for the 7 and 1 lb for the 2.5 as we added coral (most come on a chunk of rock) that made up the rest .
this link helps explain liverock
http://nanotank.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=183
also another post explaining live rock
http://nanotank.com/forum/viewtopic.php ... ly+applies
and how to pick the sizes .
Most of what you see and read there are basic guidlines ,everything you see and read must be taken with a grain of salt (no pun intended)..it then becomes your master piece and how you envision it , what looks right to you .... Hope this helps some :mrgreen:
 
I

incysor

New Member
Welcome to the site.

A couple additional test kits you'll need pretty quickly will be calcium, and pH.

LPS - Long Polyp Stony Corals. Exambles: Brains, Torch, Frogspawn, Candy Canes, bubble corals.

SPS - Small Polyp Stony Corals. Examples: Acropora, Montipora, Cup Corals.

Softies - Leathers, and Carnations mostly.

Mushrooms and polyps like star polyps, or palythoas, clove polyps, yellow polyps, zoos, are often included as Softies for the purpose of determining lighting needs, although it's not entirely accurate, most mushrooms, softies, and polyps are low light corals.

I'd skip a cannister filter unless you already have one handy. They tend to be more expensive and a lot more maintenance than a decent sized hang-on-tank (HOT) filter, and can't be converted to a refugium.

As far as nanocubes or other all-in-one type tanks go, some folks like them, some don't. I like the looks, but not enough to pay the extra money necessary to make them viable as a marine tank. We discussed this a bit in this thread earlier.

http://nanotank.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2201

B
 
JeffDubya

JeffDubya

New Member
Yes, I saw that thread.

I also posed this question to the folks who manufacture the Nano. Here's my question and their response:

"My first question is... Is there truly enough light in the deluxe hood to sustain certain types of corals and anemones long-term? I know I have seen some sites offering "modified" hoods for hundreds of dollars, but how will yours work out of the box? Are the "Moon Lights" similar to the effect I used to get with a single blue actinic bulb, kind of a nighttime look?"

And their response...

"The 12g Deluxe Nano-Cube was designed to be used out of the box without any modifications. This product features (2) 24 watt 50/50 lamps that can support LPS, soft, and leathers for extended period of time. We have had a tank set up in the office for over 3 years with little effort. Anemones, will depend on the type you choose since many different varieties prefer different light levels."

The Nite-Vu Led Moonlights actually create a shimmering effect in the tank like the moon. They are very low wattage and simulate the nocturnal effects of the ocean."

Of course, they responded with information about the 12 Gallon, and I specifically asked about the 24. I'll post that response as well... ;)
 
JeffDubya

JeffDubya

New Member
Regarding water... do all of you use Reverse-Osmosis filtered water? What's the advantage?

We have poor water in our area. It all comes from an aquifer and has lots of mineral deposits in it. Very "Hard" as water goes. Currently, I do not have any water softening system at my home.

When you purchase water, what do you do... put it in a sanitized bucket and drop a heater in it for a few hours until it is up to temp?
 
skipm

skipm

Moderator
Staff member
There are several people on the board here that use either Nutri-seawater or Catalina water, both of which are natural saltwater that has been filtered and packaged for immediate use after equalizing temperatures. I have been using RO/DI water in my aquariums. An RO (reverse osmosis) filter removes up 95% of the contaminants found in tap water including chlorine and phosphates. The DI (deionization) part removes as close to 100% of the rest of the contaminants as possible. Tap water just has too much stuff in it that we need to keep out of our tanks. nitrates, phosphates, copper, chlorine, flouride, etc. can either feed algae blooms or even poison inverts in high enough doses. An RO/DI filter is one of the best investments that you can make to insure that you are using the best possible quality of water that you can. Even if you use one of the packaged natural water products you still need RO water for top off since the water evaporates but the salt doesn't. If you were to replace evaporation water with saltwater your salinity would increase with every top-off until the salinity was too high to support life.
To do a water change you need to adjust the salinity and pH and temp. to that of the aquarium before changing water. Some people also aerate the water with either an airstone or powerhead before performing a water change.
I appologize for forgetting to mention the pH test kit in my earlier post. As Incysor said you will need to test for pH, calcium, and alkalinity in the near future after your cycle is complete. HTH, Skip
 
skipm

skipm

Moderator
Staff member
I also meant to ask what part of the country are you located in? There may be one of us from the board that either lives close or knows of a good LFS for you.
 
R

reefman23

New Member
Welcome jeff. as far as which tank to use, i dont have any experience with the nano cubes, but that is because i never want to. i know that many people here are using them, but i see them as being sort of restricting...you cant add any form of filtration, lighting is rather difficult to upgrade, etc etc. I would suggest a 20g long... 30"L x 12"W x 12"T ( I believe). I like these because you get a decent amount of water while keeping it shallow enough to get alot out of your lights. there are many fixtures that are asthetically pleasing and rather cheap. This fixture http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/P ... 032+113345 Offers a 30" model that has 2x65 watt power compacts that would fit perfectly over a 20L for less than $140. This route would allow for more flexibilty with filtration, too. you could do a hang-on-back overflow to a sump/refugium, or just hang a skimmer on the back...there are many more options than with the nanocubes. plus, with the 24g nanocube, there have been many reports of people who have experienced cracking/leaking from the bent corners of the tank. just my $0.02
 
skipm

skipm

Moderator
Staff member
Here is a link to a Coralife fixture that is fairly inexpensive, you can also get an extra set of bulbs for 1/2 off when you buy the fixture. Here is the link: http://www.hellolights.com/302xcoaqpcho.html . BTW this unit does not have moonlights built in but they do sell them as an add-on. HTH, Skip
 
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