Filters, Power Heads and my new Fluval

[JeffDubya]

I grabbed this post from another thread I have been running for a while. I apologize for the cross-post, but because it has been around for some time, I don't want the chance it could be ignored.

BTW, the 10x turnover rate is a minimum, rule of thumb. Corals like SPSs like more flow and are quite happy in tanks with 40-50x turnover rate.

If you want SPS I think a wave maker and several more powerheads would be a wise investment. I don't have any experience with SPS, I'm just going off what I've read on this site.

I now have a Fluval 205 cannister filter (180 GPH), Two Aqua Clear 50 Power Heads (270 GPH ea) and a Zoo Med Powersweep 226 Wave Maker (190 GPH) for a total exchange of 910 gallons per hour.

I am still trying to keep a fish alive for more than 24 hours. After acclimating a little domino damsel for about 2 hours yesterday, I dropped him in there and the poor little dude really struggled with the current.

Is it possible to have TOO MUCH current?

Now to the Fluval. Skip mentioned in a brief response that I should pull att the bio rings and replace them with live rock pieces. He also said I should pull the sponge, because it could jack up nitrites. I'd like some more information about this. THANKS!

 

[idog]

A two hour acclimation is WAY too much. 15 minutes tops for a hardy little guy like that is all I would do. Trapped ammonia in the bag could have compromised his gills, and he could be struggling for oxygen rather than for excess flow. the stress of bsing bagged is very damaging so minimize it if possible

How big is your tank? As long as flow is diffused, you really can't have too much flow unless it is kicking up your sand, or firing right at something.

Fish take a awhile to acclimate to current just like anything else. they will be buffeted around thill they learn the flow zones and hiding places.

 

[JeffDubya]

Does it matter if I don't keep him in the bag?

Again, I pour the contents of the bag into a plastic container like they use at the fish store when you buy fish, the one that hangs on the tank. I empty them into it, and hang it so it is in the water. 30 minutes after placing it, I add about 1/2 cup of water to it, and I repeat that every 15-20 minutes until the cup is full. Then I release.

Define "kicking up sand" - I have a corner where you can really see that current moving. I have a pretty coarse mix, and the lighter stuff moves around some.

 

[proraptor]

Accliating a fish for 2 hours will just stress the fish out more....I agree with the 15 mins rule.

high flow is 99.9% always good but most people put way too much flow in their tanks when they arent keeping any SPS...Its ridiculous to have a ton of flow with a bunch of zoas, softies, LPS, etc...

As for the Fluval Id take out the bio balls and replace it with live rock rubble (very very small pieces) and Id also keep a sponge in there for mechanical filtration. If you do decide to keep the sponge in there make sure you clean it like once a week.

 

[JeffDubya]

Wow... I feel really bad now. I thought by extending the acclimation I was being more humane. I even feed them sometimes. I did on Thursday. RGH! :sad:

 

[JeffDubya]

high flow is 99.9% always good but most people put way too much flow in their tanks when they arent keeping any SPS...Its ridiculous to have a ton of flow with a bunch of zoas, softies, LPS, etc...

So... should I turn them down? Everything except for the Fluval is variable flow. It'll be a pain... but I will do it...

 

[Anonymous]

i don't think your acclimation time is the issue - i'm not in the main stream at all when it comes to acclimating (i float bags to equalize temp and then put the critter, no bag water, in the tank - thats it - - never had a prob with this with fish, coral, or invert) but your 2 hour method is fine and is not what is killing your fish. you need to bring a sample to your LFS to compare params with them, for some reason your tank must be way out of wack with theirs on one or many importent water quality issues.......
as for flow, make sure none of your pumps blow directly at anything and you'll be fine , bounce it off glass or rock and it becomes more random/nonlaminer and the high flow/low pressure pumps out there like sieos and tunzees are great for this
as for the cannister i would remove the bioballs too but would NOT replace with live rock rubble. a tank full of live rock has more then enough surface area for biologic filtration - no more is neccessary. and i use my sponges - i like to clean them often though as was said to keep them mechanical - not biological.

 

[proraptor]

When fish stress they die simple as that its been proven time and time again....Your job is to make sure the fish doesnt stress to the point of death. Did you know fish are also more prone to getting ick when they are stressed?

There simply is no point to having high flow if you are keeping SPS, Gorgonians, and other high flow loving corals. High flow will piss off blastos, acans, some zoas, Yumas, Ricordia florida, leathers, xenia etc. Now if you have a SPS dominated tank the sky is the limit.

Ive never heard of anyone that didnt think it was a good idea to ADD more filtration to their tank by ADDING more live rock....I have about 160 lbs of live rock in my 60 cube, sump, refugium and my parameters are rock solid....Heck I havent tested for at least 6 months....Everyone that I know that has a canister filter out here in socal has live rock rubble in it.

 

[JeffDubya]

These were my readings... that my local fish store verified:

Salinity: 32
Specific Gravity: 1.023
pH: 7.8
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0.5
Nitrate: 10

Note: Salinity/Specific Gravity were NOT done using a refractometer, just a cheapie plastic hydrometer.

 

[proraptor]

Ill bet anything your salinity on a refractometer will read at least 1.030. My swing arm was reading 1.023 like you and my salinity on my refractometer was reading 1.031! Those swingarms are horrible

 

[JeffDubya]

Here are my readings from today. Looks like my "lost" damsel has moved on to that great reef tank in the sky, based on the ammonia levels going up. Guess I don't need to buy some shrimp to cycle the tank...

Current Temp: 78.6
Current Salinity: 32
Current Gravity: 1.024
Current pH: 7.8
Current Ammonia: 0.25
Current Nitrite: 0.25
Current Nitrate: 20

Question... what kind of reading is a good Ammonia spike, e.g. how big should that number get for a "true" cycle before I get concerned?

 

[Jennie]

It looks like your cycle is already underway. If you have nitrites present at that reading, then I would think that the amonia shouldn't spike much higher.

 

[JeffDubya]

Cool. Well between that long lost damselfish and one half of a small shrimp I chopped up and threw in this morning, we're now in a 2-week-wait-and-see-what-the-heck-happens cycle. With luck everything will level off and then I can buy my cleaning crew.

 

[idog]

Yeah, my bet would be that ammonia did this little guy in, especially if you put food in the bag while he was acclimating. Don't worry we have all made rookie mistakes. Just don't put anything else living in the tank until trItes and ammonia are zero and trAtes are as close to 0 as possible and steady.

Johnanddawn, I am confused as to why you yourself don't do long acclimations, yet condone a two hour acclimation for a damsel. I'll bet dollars to donuts that the acclimation procedure that fish went thruough killed that fish. Stress or ammonia or both did the fish in. There was ammonia in the bag and in the tank water he was acclimating with. I have ammonia burned fish before and they seldom recover.

Try to keep the fish in the dark as much as possible when transporting, and leave the tank lights off while doing it to let the little guy settle and feel hidden.

 

[JeffDubya]

iDog...

Again, the fish that was acclimating was in an open-topped plastic container, not in the bag. I don't know if it makes a huge difference, or any at all. I just want to be clear about that. Also, my ammonia, *was* zero... I think the jump now was caused by said fish as he does his decomposition thing.

 

[drty811]

did you say how big your tank is?

JMO i run just the filter for current and place corals accordingly. all my stuff does well. unless you have a 55gal tank three PH is alittle overkill.

 

[idog]

Bag or plastic container, it doesn't matter. Confined space where ammonia is allowed to build up over time is the key. Food placed in the water at 80 degrees would start to decompose immediately, and if he ate anything he would foul his own water. If shipping fish, most LFS's would not feed their fish for a few days prior. You found and disposed of the carcass right?

 

[JeffDubya]

Actually, no. Without completely tearing apart the tank I cannot find him. At this point, I am going to let nature to its thing and let his decomp. fuel the cycle. Is that bad?

 

[JeffDubya]

...unless you have a 55gal tank three PH is alittle overkill.

Yeah, so I am discovering. However, I turned the two aqua-clear heads down, and moved the wavemaker to the top. I think it will be okay.

I got a little carried away, but I got my information from this board. I think it will work out.

 

[idog]

With nothing else alive in the tank, you should be okay. With all that shrimp, dead fish, and LR it might just take a while to process, but it will with time.