Wanting to start a 13gal (50 litre) nano...

[KoNP]

But I really don't have a clue where to start, and if I get into this, I'm wanting to get it right or close-to-right my first go.

Basically, I can't figure out if the best course of action is to go the two powerhead/powerhead + small internal filter and have live sand and live rock as a biological filter, or to get an external cannister filter. The guy in the marine aquarium shop was trying to push me toward a small cannister (at least partially because it would have doubled my bill, I'm not completely retarded in these matters ) and said that his brother ran a setup with the sand/rock doing the filtering (like a lot of tanks here) and it ran fantastically for nearly a year, but 2 months ago it fatally crashed and wiped out everying in the tank.

He also said the less water a tank holds, the more unstable as a system it is - which makes sense as smaller amounts of toxins become bigger problems in smaller tanks. It's going to be an open-top tank in a well ventilated are to help with temperature control, and as for the population it's going to be mostly live rock, with possibly two very small clowns and maybe a small non-coral-munching starfish.

Basically, I've wanted to get into saltwater aquariums for a while but have always been told that it's hideously expensive - coolers, cannisters, protein skimmers, blah blah blah... and I'm inclined to take the advice of others if the others are more experienced than me on a subject (common sense, really). But in this case... I've seen many tanks here very successfuly run on the basic no-cannister/chiller/skimmer setup, larger than what I want to do, but on the flipside I have a guy who works in a store with a few very massive marine tanks that are running brilliantly from the looks of things.

So basically, I would like a few opinions: should I go the 2x powerhead/1x powerhead, 1x small internal filter + LR and LS route, or the no powerheads/filters internally and a small external cannister filter?

Just for the record I have a 60-litre freshwater tank that's running very nicely, and I'm diligent with it, so effort is not something I'm afraid of or trying to avoid here.

-EDIT-

This is the tank I'm most likely going to use - it's about 50cm x 31.5cm x 30cm (LxHxW) internally, so not quite 50L (48-ish - previously I measured externally). Tape measure reading provided for scale.

-EDIT again-
Resolution too high for IMG tags, I'll just hotlink to it. Enjoy.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v392/King_Of_NoPants/IMG_2134.jpg

 

[KoNP]

So no advice?...

 

[cameraman_2]

I'd do 2 powerheads. Clowns would be too big for that tank. Just be sure to use ro/di water. Yeah big tanks can get expensive because of the cost of water changes, lighting, skimmers, filtration and so on. I hope I helped you with your decision.
Marshall

 

[TimSchmidt]

For biological filtration all you need is live rock and live sand (although some go barebottom, so you don't NEED but it does help). For saltwater the option in my opinion is the rock and sand.

BUT, external filters can be useful - especially since your tank doesn't have an overflow. You said it was fresh water so I assume you have a power-filter of some sort? Personally I wouldn't buy much yet. Set up with the sand, rock, heater, power filter, and a internal power head (Koralia 1?). Your major upgrade from Fresh water (besides rock and sand) will be lights. If you want coral you can easily drop $300 US (you used liters so I assume you are not stateside).

Water volume discussion is spot on, but this is indeed a nanotank forum. Since you are topless, look into an auto top off to help stabilize your salinity. aquahub.com has some DIY ones that work fairly well.

By the way :welcome to Nanotank!

If that doesn't help let us know (sorry for not posting earlier, was in ER getting IVs dehydration due to food poisoning)

 

[KoNP]

For biological filtration all you need is live rock and live sand (although some go barebottom, so you don't NEED but it does help). For saltwater the option in my opinion is the rock and sand.

Excellent, so I could indeed get away with doing it that way and then if need be add a canister later.

BUT, external filters can be useful - especially since your tank doesn't have an overflow. You said it was fresh water so I assume you have a power-filter of some sort? Personally I wouldn't buy much yet. Set up with the sand, rock, heater, power filter, and a internal power head (Koralia 1?). Your major upgrade from Fresh water (besides rock and sand) will be lights. If you want coral you can easily drop $300 US (you used liters so I assume you are not stateside).

It's not an upgrade from the existing tank - the one pictured is a second tank. The 60L freshie is staying that way. The filter is an AquaOne hang-on filter, I think it does 240L an hour. It's not bad, actually. It's similar to this one:

http://www.theaquariumshop.com.au/shopexd.asp?id=1418&name=AquarWorld Aquarium Hang On Filter H250

Yeah the lights are starting to look a little costly, however the pet store with the marine section I mentioned is currently doing a sale on light setups and bulbs (apologies if I seemed a little rude/abrupt at any point, I just wanna take advantage of the sale period while it lasts ), and it would also appear that a lot of aquarium equipment is cheaper here in Australia than it is in the States, as I've seen coral and live rock go for prices that seem low compared to what some of you guys pay.

Water volume discussion is spot on, but this is indeed a nanotank forum. Since you are topless, look into an auto top off to help stabilize your salinity. aquahub.com has some DIY ones that work fairly well.

Auto top off? You mean like a mini-sump setup or something? Might be something to look into. The tank is going to go on a countertop in the dining-room area, so I could even drill a hole in the countertop to a shelf-space below it and hide all the plumbing and stuff away. I'm even considering drilling/plumbing the tank but I'm not sure on whether it's tempered or not.

By the way :welcome to Nanotank!

Thank you! It's a pleasure to be here

If that doesn't help let us know (sorry for not posting earlier, was in ER getting IVs dehydration due to food poisoning)

No dramas. I was getting a little tetchy when it had 14 views and no posts, but like I said, I don't want to miss the current sale at my LFS .

 

[TimSchmidt]

Auto top off. It's a system that has a switch that detects when evaporation drops your water level in the display tank. If you can do a sump I would say do it. I LOVE them, but if that's not feasible then the auto top off will help a lot.

http://www.aquahub.com/store/product26.html

That filter should do fine. Some people add in a macro algae (big algae) in the filters so that the nuisance algae has competition. Kind of a controlled chaos, :razz:

 

[KoNP]

Auto top off. It's a system that has a switch that detects when evaporation drops your water level in the display tank. If you can do a sump I would say do it. I LOVE them, but if that's not feasible then the auto top off will help a lot.

Yeah I did some research into those. I would top the water up every 2 to 3 days anyway so I don't really -need- an automatic thing to do it for me, however it could be cool to get one to cover me if I ever go away for a few days or something. I'm not gonna build my own though, it involves wiring with live current, not batteries, so I'd probably wind up making a wiring mistake or leaving a bare wire somewhere and destroy my tank and possibly half the fixtures in the house (knowing me )

That filter should do fine. Some people add in a macro algae (big algae) in the filters so that the nuisance algae has competition. Kind of a controlled chaos, :razz:

No dramas. I'd prefer to go a small internal filter to avoid splashing and bubbles, is there any inherent reason I should avoid this? I could always jam some macro-algae into one of them too. I would very much like to do a sump setup but I think my tank is tempered so I can't drill it safely. Could always figure out some other way of doing it I suppose.

I have a technical question related to the water I'm using. I've seen varying opinions on the RO/DI water. Some swear by it, others say avoid it because it has minimal trace elements in it that the fish need. Rainwater has similar opinions, as does tapwater. What I'm wanting to know is this:

Obviously the best water would be actual sea water. If I was going to use proper seawater, what kind of things would I need to look out for? Obviously I wouldn't take water from a heavily populated tourist strip or anything, I'd aim for a secluded beach with a lot of rocks (experience in the north of QLD has taught me the water at these beaches is usually much much cleaner).

Anybody had any success going that way?

 

[TimSchmidt]

My honest thoughts are this:

Yes you would think sea water would work, but in my opinion it's not the *best*. Sea water will have everything your tank needs and then some (potentially bad things).

Our tanks are quite small and I prefer to know the exact concentrations of trace minerals and ions that I put into my water for my tank. I'm a big fan of RO/DI (super squeaky clean water, NOTHING in it) and putting in a quality saltwater mix (this adds all those trace minerals and ions that people say RO/DI lacks....um of course RO/DI lacks them there's NOTHING in RO/DI).

If you are going to use natural sea water I've *heard* that one must go away from shore and collect off shore.

Using internal filter should be fine, just make sure if there are any sponges you clean or swap them out every couple of days (3 or so is what I do for my sponge).

 

[KoNP]

My honest thoughts are this:

Yes you would think sea water would work, but in my opinion it's not the *best*. Sea water will have everything your tank needs and then some (potentially bad things).

Our tanks are quite small and I prefer to know the exact concentrations of trace minerals and ions that I put into my water for my tank. I'm a big fan of RO/DI (super squeaky clean water, NOTHING in it) and putting in a quality saltwater mix (this adds all those trace minerals and ions that people say RO/DI lacks....um of course RO/DI lacks them there's NOTHING in RO/DI).

If you are going to use natural sea water I've *heard* that one must go away from shore and collect off shore.

Using internal filter should be fine, just make sure if there are any sponges you clean or swap them out every couple of days (3 or so is what I do for my sponge).

This is all extremely helpful advice, thank you The reason I asked about sea water is because I live relatively close to the Gold Coast in QLD, Australia, and it would more than likely be cheaper to go and collect a ton of seawater than buying bottles of DI water or getting a system, plus it'd give me an excuse to get out on the weekends :razz:

Like I said, I'd want to find a secluded rocky beach with a fair bit of turbulence - natural mechanical filtration against the rocks and the sand, heh. Going to a tourist beach would probably yield 50% saltwater, 45% pee and some floaters, which would obviously be really really bad for any marine life I have.

If I get an internal filter I would probably take the sponge and carbon out and put a small amount of coral rubble in it, unless there's some reason I should leave the carbon.

Thanks for being so helpful, btw. I've got a much more solid picture in my head of how to proceed on this project and I can't wait to get started.

 

[TimSchmidt]

I do run carbon, but that is just me. It's another debated topic, but since we do weekly or bi-weekly water changes I don't see any issue with it.

And, you're welcome. Tons of useful posts in the forums. This is all just info I've collected. Others on this site have tons more info and insights. Just browse through the topics!