New to Nano's - need advice

[phoenix_princess]

I am getting ready to set-up a Tenecor 12 gallon Pentagon Simplicity Nano tank (filtration is integral part of tank). Can I keep any sort of Clown fish and associated Anenome is such a small tank? I was also considering a Manadarin Goby if I could not keep the Clown.

I am not new to fish keeping, just small marine tanks.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[EcoSystem]

As i remember Manadarin are hard to keep.

Um do you have a site link for the tank you have...i would like to see it.

 

[mihkaail]

Sorry dear, but you cant go with a mandarin in a 12 gallon. Let me explain: mandarins often do not adapt to accept prepared foods in captivity (ie frozen brine/mysis, pellets, flake, greeze-dried worms et cetera). In the wild, they eat little creatures known as amphipods and copepods. These are small crustaceans living are bentho-pelagic (live on the substrate-ie liverock and sand- as well as free swimming). Generally, you will see mandarins slowly seeking them in cracks on the LR. These pods need lotsa LR to reproduce and grow on.
In a 12g, there wouldnt be enough LR for the mandarin to graze on. Its like keeping a horse on 20square foot pasture; the grass'll go bare and you'll need to feed suplementary stuff (ie chaff, oats, pony nuts etc). In the case of a mandarin (which'll only eat pods) you'll have to feed them that (similarly, no point trying to feed a horse marshmallows).
Thus, many people recommed 75-125lbs of LR in a tank per mandarin. This value increases if theres lotsa other fish in the tank (other fish snack on them too). One last note is that although some mandarins MAY eat brine shrimp, thrers almost no nutritional value in them (like a kid eating popcorn all day)

As to your reference to the clowns in an anemone (much better choice). However, although clowns are great beginner fish, anemones need special care in terms of water quality. Id recommend either you get a couple of years experience first before trying an anemone (as luck would have it, the clownfish host anemones are the most difficult to keep) or keep clowns with a substitute. Many clowns learn to host in all sorts of stuff (eg xenia, heliofungia, anchor, frogspawn, torch corals; google this to see the images; they look very much like anemones).

I hope that you dont think im just trying to shoot you down or anything but youll get similar advice from other people, just wanted to give a more thorough explaination on things. Also i hope you'll get a euphyllia type coral cos clowns like em if theres no anemone and their tentacles look very anemone like. Check out GARF (google it, i cant remember the url); they give more reasons not to have an anemone.

Good luck with your new hobby. Keep us posted.

 

[dragon79]

yeah, mihkaail is right. Don't let it discourage you though. There are so many pretty varieties to choose from. Owning a mandarin isn't impossible, but it's a lot of work to keep them well fed when dealing with smaller tanks. I should know, my g/f bought one not knowing for her 12 gallon because she loved the coloration and what not. She had an idea that they can adapt to prepared foods, but of course....guess who had to do all the training? ME! lol. Well I can say the mandarin is doing fine, and his belly is remaining full, but it took a while for me to get him to accept mysis, cyclopeeze, and brine shrimp. As for brine, if you have baby brine, it does have nutritional value, but if you have adult brine, it's true, they are not nutritional, and it's basically like eating candy, but what you can is have them soaked in enriched vitamins that make them good to eat, like soaking them in "selcon" i believe. So there are various ways to help adapt and care for the little dude, but as you can see it's a lot of work, and I always have to spot feed the mandarin to ensure the "mandy" is gettin' her fill.

Anyway, great starter fish are clowns, and better stronger survivors are the Ocellaris Clowns (NEMO). Assorted gobys like the neon goby, red headed goby, yellow striped goby, are tiny little guys, like guppies, and easy to care for. Ones with really pretty coloration are the firefish species. Careful for those, if you dont have a closed top, they are indeed jumpers, so that's one thing I'd look out for. Well I'll leave things at that, let us know what you end up getting and be sure to post pics! Best of luck!

 

[oObubblesOo]

I started my tank with 2 domino damsels, they are still the only fish i have in my 12 gallon, i have an anenome as well. For those who are going to tell me my damsels will get aggressive, thats fine, they live together sleep in the same clam shell, and are not without each other all day long, they get along great. If they turn aggressive later then i will remove one, but i cant see it happening, maybe i lucked out and got a male and a female. I named them bill and will though

 

[EcoSystem]

The juviniles are normaly ok together. But as they grow they become agressive because of teritory. This is not always the case, but normaly.

-Eco

 

[phoenix_princess]

Thanks for all of the advice. I would post a picture of it but I can't figure out how to insert a picture here.

As to feeding the Mandarin, I have a 120 gallon tank that is just full of copepods and such. Actually, right now that is about all that is in the tank besides the live rock (fish were moved to another home). I don't think the Damsels that were in it for 6 months ever ate them because the rocks and substrate are just full of little creatures. So unless I put something in that tank that eats them all I should have a ready selection for the little rascal.

The reason why I even suggested it is because several sites I visited this weekend said that the Manadrin Goby would do just fine in a 10 gallon tank. It was the Clown fish that they said needed a minimum of 30 gallons, so I am not sure what to think anymore.

I really wanted the clown anyway, would 2 be too many? I was reading somewhere that if an anenome dies it could kill everything in the tank, is that so? Does anyone know if a clown will host something like hair grass, maybe? I could plant something in the tank that they could hide in instead of an anenome and then I would not have to worry about them.

 

[EcoSystem]

If you read mihkaail's post there is a list of what Clowns will generaly host on. I have kept 2 Clowns in a 10 for a long time.

And to be honest anyone that has put up info on the web to say that you can keep a Mandarin in a small tank is working very hard to feed that fish and keep it alive or is sadly misinformed. I have seen some kept in 15 gallon tanks with a refugium to grow food.

There are many dwarf gobies that can be kept in small tanks.

I wish you luck with what ever fish you pick.

Happy Reefing

-Eco

 

[incysor]

Thanks for all of the advice. I would post a picture of it but I can't figure out how to insert a picture here.

As to feeding the Mandarin, I have a 120 gallon tank that is just full of copepods and such. Actually, right now that is about all that is in the tank besides the live rock (fish were moved to another home). I don't think the Damsels that were in it for 6 months ever ate them because the rocks and substrate are just full of little creatures. So unless I put something in that tank that eats them all I should have a ready selection for the little rascal.

The reason why I even suggested it is because several sites I visited this weekend said that the Manadrin Goby would do just fine in a 10 gallon tank. It was the Clown fish that they said needed a minimum of 30 gallons, so I am not sure what to think anymore.

I really wanted the clown anyway, would 2 be too many? I was reading somewhere that if an anenome dies it could kill everything in the tank, is that so? Does anyone know if a clown will host something like hair grass, maybe? I could plant something in the tank that they could hide in instead of an anenome and then I would not have to worry about them.

mihkaail's correct. A mandarin in a 12g isn't a good idea. Unless you're very lucky and can get it trained to eat prepared before it starves it'll die.

If you've got the 120 already setup and full of rock/water that would be a much better place for it. Trying to suck out pods to feed it in a nano is going to quickly become a PITA. I actually started an amphipod breeding tank to supplement the pods in my 55g, when I had mandarins, and it didn't take long before I was very tired of trying to catch them and transfer them into the larger tank.

Depending on what clowns you're talking about a pair could be fine in a 12. I'd wait on the anemone until you've got plenty of light over the tank, at least a 96w job, and let the tank mature past the 6 month mark. This gives the tank plenty of time to stabilize.

B

 

[EcoSystem]

I actually started an amphipod breeding tank to supplement the pods in my 55g.

Interesting dude...might i ask how you set that up and what the specs were and what you had in it and how you transfered them. Thanks. :smile:

-Eco

 

[mihkaail]

Hi all,

Princess, i just rereadme post, sorry to be so negatory; i justdidnt wanna see another mandarin die. As dragon proves, it is possible to "train" mandarins, but these are exceptions. I had a mandarin pair in a 12gallon long before and they ate EVERYTHING, frozen stuff, live bloodworms, tubifex, brine, even freezedried and some flake! but once again, this is cos i found an eating male and got him a mate. He trained her, i did nothing. Generally it isnt an advisable thing to do though.

About your hair algae thing; it is possible, i guess, to have clowns hosting hair algae, they do host turtlegrass on occasion (dont recommend getting it though, just rots away slowly until its all gone). You can keep almost any clown pair in a 12, except a maroon clown pair (premnas biaculeatus) as well as Clark's clown (amphiprion clarkii), if you get them big. (if you get clarkiis small, no problem). Both these species can grow large (8" in the former and 5" in the latter).

Do try to get a euphyllia sp coral, they should act as hosts to the clowns, but no guarantee, my pal's got a BTA and elegence and euphyllias but the clown still wants to host a powerhead!

 

[incysor]

I actually started an amphipod breeding tank to supplement the pods in my 55g.

Interesting dude...might i ask how you set that up and what the specs were and what you had in it and how you transfered them. Thanks. :smile:

-Eco

I ordered this. Setup a 10g tank with a basic NO 10k lightstrip. Put a cheap carbon bubbler driven filter on it. Fed the tank periodically with the pod flake that came with the setup after the lights were off. Usually I just sucked the pods up with a turkey baster and dropped them in the larger tank near the mandarins. However I did setup a small rubble pile in the corner of the tank and put them in there as well.

B

http://www.ipsf.com/#anchor45957

 

[phoenix_princess]

I think that I have settled on a pair of ocillarius clowns, paired if I can get them and see how it goes. I would put the fish in the 120 gallon, but it is a very used acrylic tank that looks horrible and is only good for growing out things to display. It is nowhere near a display tank.

I have heard so much about nano tanks and have a perfect nitche right next to my desk off my kitchen. I can sit there and watch them and the close proximity to the kitchen is a good thing :smile: . I just needed some help on down sizing to 12 gallons. I have never had a tank this small.

I want to thank everybody for all there help and support and will keep you posted on progress. I'm getting really psyched about all this.

Happy reefing everybody.