Clowns and Chromis

[Iceburg98]

Ok, a few questions here:

1. What's the difference between a true perc and false perc (occelaris) other than the difference in markings/coloration.

2. What coral would be good to host a clown? frogspawn? elegance? or is there an anemone that won't move around too much from where i place it?

3. Would a clown get along with a green chromis? And more importantly, would a 6 gal be too small for either/both of them.

I know it's a lot of ?'s for one post, but i figured this would be easier than doing 2 or 3 different posts... :roll:

 

[dragon79]

Ok, a few questions here:

1. What's the difference between a true perc and false perc (occelaris) other than the difference in markings/coloration.

2. What coral would be good to host a clown? frogspawn? elegance? or is there an anemone that won't move around too much from where i place it?

3. Would a clown get along with a green chromis? And more importantly, would a 6 gal be too small for either/both of them.

I know it's a lot of ?'s for one post, but i figured this would be easier than doing 2 or 3 different posts... :roll:

1.) & 2.) True percula - Comes right from the wild, so he/she knows what to naturally host in (anemones), it also is more sketchy and afraid as they are not used to human contact. More likely to scurry to hide. Takes them a while to be accustomed to being around humans and also to the "feedings".

False Percula - are tank raised, raised around humans, so they are as gentle as a goldfish. When you go up to the front of the tank, they'll come out and go to the top of the water because they know that they are going to be fed. They dont know their natural hosting anemones, so when you throw things like frogspawn, hammer coral, torch or whatever, they might take to that or they might just not , like mine. I have one and he goes and hangs in the sandbed when idle and when active, just likes to swim all around the front or sides of the tank.

3.) 6 gallon tank, you could have two fish I think you'd be fine. As for temperament between a clownfish and a green chromis, you may want to check out www.marinedepotlive.com and search and read about them, that way you'll know as currently I am not sure.

Some suggestions though:

two clowns

clown + purple psuedo.

clown + blenny

clown + yellow goby

clown + firefish

Hope this helps Good luck.

 

[Iceburg98]

wow :shock:

that's actually the most conprehensive explanation of percs i've ever read. Thanks :smile:

I'll definately check out that website, and i'll most likely ask my LFS guy what he thinks. 2 clowns might be cool, but one of the other combos would definately add a bit more color.

Now what about the bio-load of having 2 clowns? or would weekly water changes help with that?

 

[dragon79]

wow :shock:

that's actually the most conprehensive explanation of percs i've ever read. Thanks :smile:

I'll definately check out that website, and i'll most likely ask my LFS guy what he thinks. 2 clowns might be cool, but one of the other combos would definately add a bit more color.

Now what about the bio-load of having 2 clowns? or would weekly water changes help with that?

weekly water changes will be fine. Shouldn't encounter any problems with good maintenance/habits I took the liberty to read up on the green chromis. Doesn't seem of bad temperament, but they say they do best in like a school of 6 which would call for a bigger tank like 75 gallons. So I guess mr. green chromis is not exactly a good choice.

I have a two tanks. One of my girlfriends (jbj 12 gallons) She has a blue neon goby, spotted green mandarin goby *house broken*, 1 false perc, 1 bi-color blenny, a cleaner shrimp, and 1 emerald crab. No problems there, she keeps up with water changes weekly. she has chemi-pure to keep tank clean and clear. Right amounf of LR, with a nice amount of sandbed and all the inhabitants of the tank are very happy.

I have a 1.5 gallon pico, that one is more touchy, the quality can drop rather quickly as I'm working with less water to play with. I have to be on top of the water changes, and the "daily" top offs. I'd need a top off float switch if I was to be gone for a week as I need to be here all the time to make sure things are cool.

So in closing, you will have 6 gallons, two fish, weekly water changes.....LR and LS too right? (necessity for beneficial bacteria) Well good luck, and let us all know how everything goes and be sure to post pics. Laterz.

 

[Iceburg98]

yeah, i have about 10 lbs of LR and about a 3" DSB - so no problems with the bio-filtering.

Cool - i can't wait to get some fish and corals in there, then i will definately post some pics

 

[Iceburg98]

also, how often do you have to feed clown fish? my LFS guy told me twice a day, but that seems a bit much.

And if i were to go with a clown and a blenny, should i put the blenny in first, or will the clown leave him alone if i add it later?

 

[ExiledInfidel666]

im sorry but have to interject about the percs, now maybe im wrong but this is the information i have and iv never been corrected about it, one, they are not the same fish, they are completly different species, same genus though, amp. perc and amp. ocerellis (check that spelling), you can change the species just by keeping them in a tank, true the falses will tend to be more peaceful but not always the truth, mine killed so many fish I had to get rid of him, now I have a cinnamon which is usually worse but he is far more peaceful then the false, and their are tank bred true percs, and im pretty sure there are wild falses, not positive on that one tho, sorry dragon, just feel he should know, and if im wrong someone tell me and show me info on it, it seems like dragon is making the false out to be a tank bred which is definitly not true and i dont think that can even be accomplished by my studies on evolution, and definitly never that fast if its at all possible

 

[dragon79]

im sorry but have to interject about the percs, now maybe im wrong but this is the information i have and iv never been corrected about it, one, they are not the same fish, they are completly different species, same genus though, amp. perc and amp. ocerellis (check that spelling), you can change the species just by keeping them in a tank, true the falses will tend to be more peaceful but not always the truth, mine killed so many fish I had to get rid of him, now I have a cinnamon which is usually worse but he is far more peaceful then the false, and their are tank bred true percs, and im pretty sure there are wild falses, not positive on that one tho, sorry dragon, just feel he should know, and if im wrong someone tell me and show me info on it, it seems like dragon is making the false out to be a tank bred which is definitly not true and i dont think that can even be accomplished by my studies on evolution, and definitly never that fast if its at all possible

I am not entirely sure as I am new to the hobby as of Nov 2004, but that's how it was explained to me by my older brother. (he'll have to step in and go and clarify as he has 10+ years under his belt....Mike can you help on this one??) I always had the understanding they were bred so as to be more hardy and human friendly. You are saying they are perculas that are maintained in tanks are simply tank raised true percs? Where do the false percs(ocellaris) come from then? How do they change it to another species?

 

[incysor]

Amphiprion percula = True Percula
Amphiprion ocellaris = False perc AKA Occellaris. These are the ones that are labeled tank-raised. There is no large-scale tank-raised true percs that I've heard of. If they were I believe that ORA would be raising them along with the rest of the clowns that they've been selling successfully for awhile.

I'll try to respond to the rest of the stuff a bit later when I get a chance.

B

 

[mikeguerrero]

Hey Reefers,

I'll try to be brief on the difference between the True Percula and the False Percula. I have gathered my info from my years in reefing which include readings on the clown fish and their anenomes.

They are both clown fish and are both found in the wild, different regions of oceans to be exact.

Where they are different is in that they are different species of clown.

The most commonly known clown that we see in homes and on the disney film Nemo is called Amphiprion Ocellaris. Many reefers have given him the name of false percula when indeed he is a clown but not to be called a percula but should be called Ocellaris.

This name has been linked on to him for a long time by reefers when it's not his scientific name.

If you visit a LFS store you will see a tank full of these little happy guys all swimming and getting along. In the group you will find one dominant male and female with some subordinate males.

Okay now comes the Amphiprion percula which is his scientific name and reefers have nicked him the true percula. He is indeed a Percula and hence the nick he has been given of true. You will not commonly find this clown in family groups but rather a true pair.

So it appears that reefers call them True and False to quickly identify them. Remember, they are both clown fish, one is called a percula and the other a ocellaris.

Okay, I purchased a tank rasied Ocellaris for my brother dragon back in November for several reasons one being what my brother explained they are hardier than a wild one. Both are the same but wild ones have lower stats of making it through a new start up tank.

Dragons Tank raised ocellaris is an excellent choice because his temperament is not as agressive as the percula clown. They can be kept as pairs or in schools, whereas the percula will most commonly fight in schools and prefer to be in pairs only, they have a higer maintenance.

You can purchase tank raised on both clowns and it's up to choice which one you find more suitable for your tank.

Hope this sheds some light.

Mike

 

[mikeguerrero]

Infindel,

FYi, you are correct about them being different species and you are correct about their names. You did spell them wrong however, but you did label them correctly.

However, I would not be inclined to say that a percula can be changed into an ocellaris in a tank. The only change you get by introducing more than one clown is a sex change in male to female or vice versa.

Maybe you are not stating your point correctly and it sounds odd what you are implying, heads up on clarifying it.

Regarding that Dragon is wrong about having a tank bred ocellaris I cannot agree with you on that one, since it was I who purchased it from a reputalbe LFS that sold it to me.

From my posting you will see that both types of clowns can be purchased tank raised from captive breeding farms. I would much rather go this route since the wild ones should stay in their local ecosystem for the better of the environment.

Tank raised clowns fair much better in starter tanks than wild ones. There are several literature on this statistic.

Hope this sheds some light.

Mike

 

[mihkaail]

Hey there,

Just thought i'd donate my 2 cents worth.

Amphiprion percula and A. ocellaris have been part of major disputes. While many scientists and taxonomists think that they are indeed one and the same species (differences arising only due to differing geographic locations). Similarly, Bengal tigers and Siberian ones are technically the same species despite the obvious physical differences. A. percula generally inhabits the western pacific side while A. ocellaris inhabits the indonesian, westwards. Also many scientists and, more importantly, aquarists think that A. ocellaris and A. percula are distinct species. A. percula usually has much more distinct black rims to the bands, as well as being a brighter orange. However, this is just a guideline; many Ocellaris have bright colours (eg the one on the live aquaria catalogue) etc.

Additionally, under the percula subheading, several races have evolved: the darwin "black" perc, the "onyx" race as well as the more recognisable one. This again is due to the differing zoographic distribution of the species/subspecies. I do not doubt that within the Ocellaris Species/subspecies there are also differing variants, however, i have yet to see concrete evidence of this.

In relation to what Infidel said, there seems to be a consensus that many aquarists feel that A. ocellaris is the more aggresive of the two races. However, in my own opinion, Percs can be just as tough.

Although Ocellaris captive breeding has been greatly greatly superceeded Perc breeding, this is probably due to the higher availability of Ocellaris clowns (esp in earlier years). Now that percs are becoming more common (despite higher prices), it is likely that more and more true percs be available as captive bred specimens in the near future. Indeed, several institutions have already bred them at a commercial level (liveaquaria). It is also interesting to note that, in captive clowns i've seen, the ocellaris ones produce normal looking offspring, however, the true percs seem to produce misbanded offspring. Some sources say that the band normalise over time but i have not confirmed this myself. In any case, many find the uniqueness of the barring a novelty.

Finally, i would just like to add that; due to the more dominant nature of both clown species/subspecies, i hope you either get the chromis first, then the clown a while later; or buy a smaller clown than the chromis.

Hope all this helps.

PS, sorry to write so long a textbook on them. makes me sound like some old kook.

 

[incysor]

Some suggestions though:

two clowns

clown + purple psuedo.

clown + blenny

clown + yellow goby

clown + firefish

Hope this helps Good luck.

These are all better suggestions than a perc and a chomis, for the simple fact that chromis do better in groups, and a 6g tank really isn't large enough for that many fish.

Ok, a few questions here:

1. What's the difference between a true perc and false perc (occelaris) other than the difference in markings/coloration.

This one's been answered several different times.

2. What coral would be good to host a clown? frogspawn? elegance? or is there an anemone that won't move around too much from where i place it?

Your clown may not host a coral. I've had 3 pairs of clowns now, and they all did different things.
The first pair was a black occellaris, and orange occellaris. The black one hosted a bunch of pink polyps. The orange one's favorite was the cleaning magnet.
The second pair was my true-perc pair that are in my 75. The female has liked anemones from the start, and she's hosted my RBTA, my BTA, and for the brief period I had it my green carpet. The male, hasn't shown any interest an the RBTA, or BTA, and hosted the goniopora, until I got the carpet, which he liked for short time I had it.
The third pair is an orange pair of misbarred occellaris, in my nano at work. So far I haven't seen either one show any interest in hosting anything I've got in there. I've got mushrooms, palys, frogspawn, and hammer corals in there which I've seen clowns host in before, but these guys don't seem to care for them.
Tank-raised clowns are known for not really knowing what to do with an anemone, so you might have a harder time with them taking to corals. With whatever type you get, I'd say you'll probably have better luck with wavy corals. An elegance isn't a good choice for a nano tank.

3. Would a clown get along with a green chromis? And more importantly, would a 6 gal be too small for either/both of them.

I know it's a lot of ?'s for one post, but i figured this would be easier than doing 2 or 3 different posts... :roll:

Clowns and chomis will get along fine, but a 6g isn't enough room IMO as I've already stated.

If you think you're asking too many questions, try using the search function. Although I didn't mind answering your questions. :wink:

B

 

[dragon79]

not even, the more information the better. This should turn into a FAQ of percs and Ocellaris clowns. I've certainly learned a lot more about them now than before.

 

[ghostbear29]

My clarkii hates my chromis, I plan on getting the chromis to my mothers tank (more chromis) But on my 16gal. The clown has staked the whole tank as his own and will not let another fish be at peace. fwiw. Good luck. 8)

 

[skipm]

It was asked earlier if clowns would host in an elegance coral, the answer to this one is no because the sting of the elegance is too strong for a clown to become immune to it.
On the true perc. being captive bred I am lucky to have a fellow member of our reefclub who is an amature clownfish breeder that sells true percs. to most of the area LFS. I bought a pair of the little guys for my 12 DX.

 

[SkiptomyLou]

I just wanted to add that I have a tank-raised percula clown and a green chromis in my fish only tank, along with three other fishy mates, and they are best buddies. I only have the one chromis and he is doing great by himself (the friend we had for him died, but that is ok because he rejected him anyway). I don't know whether they are ok because I have a 30 gallon tank or because they have kind of grown up together. It is pretty rare to see one without the other. I don't know if you have changed your mind about the clown and the chromis but thought I would add my bit.[/quote]