Amount of fish in a tank

im going to start up a new tank after I sell my old soon, either a 30 cube from oceanic or their 50g, know I have a nice assortment of fish im planning to add and am wondering if its going to be to many, if its a little bit to much its fine because im good at dealing with that, it im crazy then stop me, I would like the 30g but if I have to Il get the 50 but dont just say a million times your better off with the fifty, I know that already, Im also going to add a big fuge under whichever tank, probably 20g fuge for the 30 and prob a 30g fuge for the 50, Im going to stock a lot of rock, probably about 40lbs in the 30 with 40lbs in its fuge or 60lbs in the 50 with 60 more in the fuge, by all means I want to avoid the 50 but it is a possibility, the fish list is:

Flame Angle
Maroon Clown
Figi Blue Devil
Yellow Clown Goby
Green Manderin
Royal Gramma
Flashlight Fish

yea 7 fish, I love fish as much if not more then the rest of the reef so they are an important factor, the tank will also have a emperor 500 on the fuge and a seaclone skimmer, the small 100 model for the 30 and the 150 model for the 50, unless I can put the 150 on the 30, then I will
 

Phischy

New Member
I've got a 40gal with a 15 gal sump with about 10gal of water in it. My main source of info for tanks and I want to build my tank into a reef which should start happening shortly. I've been cycling and dealing with pests lately. I do want to add fish but he's dead set against it. But seriously, I o a monthly 5gal water change and my tank is so clean right now the crabs are killing the snails b/c they're starving and my emerald crab just kicked the bucket.

I want to add a cleaner shrimp and a yellow goby b/c that fish is really small. But he keeps telling me no, obviously I can do what I want but seriously! It's nice to see other things in the tank moving around, and everything I put in there will be very colorful. I think 7 fish is alot for a 30, but not for the 50. I guess it just means being more on top of feeding and water quality if you're going to put in sensitive corals.

Just put'em in slowly and keep monitoring.
 
well remember that the total water is 50 gallons for the 30 and it will have total 80lbs of rock, so thats going to keep water pretty good id think, trow a huge amount of cheato in the fuge for nitrate elimination
 

djconn

New Member
Sounds like you know what you are doing and with a big fuge, you will be better off. Also looks like you're going to have plenty of mechanical filtration going on to take care of a high bioload in the tank. I would definitely suggest the 50 with that amount of fish. Sounds like a nice assortment except the manderin. I wouldn't suggest it in a tank under 100 gallons. That is just my opinion.
 
yes I no but Iv heard of people getting them to eat bloodworms and even flake food, also that huge fuge should be pumping out a lot of pods but yea hes the biggest thing I have to consider, and do you think its possible in a 30 for all those fish, also remember, the flashlight fish will only be out at night so the day is open to the maroon and flame and the other fish are kind of tiny and mostly rock dwelling, the royal will hug the rocks mostly, the goby will never leave them and the figi blue devil wont be much a bother, plus the maroon should keep near his anemone, im planning a ritteri or some kind of bubble tip
 

djconn

New Member
Incysor has lots of tanks around that size and he seems to have lots of fish. Maybe he could chime in here.
 
thinking about throwing a green chromis into the mix, I like to keep a rainbow of colors :D but its not even that pretty of a fish, maybe il just put some nice green brain coral in there oh and maybe change the royal for a black cap basslet, idk, this is why im asking all fo you for you personal opinions
 

incysor

New Member
ExiledInfidel666 said:
Flame Angle
Maroon Clown
Figi Blue Devil
Yellow Clown Goby
Green Manderin
Royal Gramma
Flashlight Fish
As DJconn mentioned I tend to keep more fish in my aquariums than most folks would. I think the number of fish you have would probably be ok in either size tank, with the size refugiums you mentioned. However I think you might want to rethink your mix.

Flame Angle - Can be agressive, known to nip at SPS, LPS and clam mantles. Since you said you want to keep clams and SPS, I'd cross this one off your list and look for Coral Beauties, or Potters Angels, which tend to have a better track record in this area. Or keep an eye out for ones from fellow hobbyists or LFS in your area that have had one in with SPS/Clams for several months.

Maroon Clown - Tomato clowns and maroon clowns are two of the most agressive and territorial clowns you can get. I have to constantly remind myself of this because the small gold-stripe maroons are my favorites. I had a friend who's GSM had gotten big enough to be that dark brick shade and gotten that bull-dog face. It got very agressive in his 180 reef so he put it in his agressive/fish only 180. It killed a qeen angel about twice it's size and a volitan lion that was nearly triple. I'm not saying it can't be done, but I'd choose wrasses, and damels and other fairly tough fish to go in a tank with these guys, and I'd put the juvenile clown in last. That way it's coming into a tank that has the other fish in it already, and it'll possibly be more accepting of them being in it's territory later. Although when they get big all bets are off as to how they'll behave.

Figi Blue Devil - I've had one. They're agressive as all damsels are. However they're actually known to be a more agressive damsel than most.
For some reason mine was always very shy, and it hid in the rockwork most of the time. But I'm chalking my experience up to mine being the exception not the rule. I fully believe that these guys are very tough little fish, and are likely to harrass other fish. I actually know a diver whose girlfriend was chased off a dive site and back into the boat by a bunch of these fish.

Yellow Clown Goby - Peaceful little guys, but depending on who you talk to these guys are known to kill acro corals. They like to perch in them, and the acros are irritated so the polyps don't extend enough to stay fed. If your tank was HEAVILY stocked with SPS you might risk it, because the hope would be that it wouldn't stay in one piece long enough to cause problems. But if you only have one or two pieces it's certainly possible that you won't have them for long. Lose two or three $40-$80 corals to a $8 fish, and it won't be in the tank for long. BTW, from what I've read, this goes for the brown and green clowns, and the citron gobies as well.

Green Mandarin - Good job scratching this off the list. Add it back only if you go for the 50, and only if you let your tank mature for several months.
You mentioned people getting them to eat bloodworms, mysis, flake etc....Yes it has and can be done. However nearly everyone that tries it fails. If you decide you want to try them, and you've gone with the 30, have the LFS folks feed brine, if they hit on it you MIGHT have a chance of training yours over to feed on mysis before it starves to death in your system. If you decide on the 50, then by all means after your 6 month mark start trying to find a healthy one at your LFS, stay away from any that have a sunken belly at all.

Royal Gramma - These guys are very colorful, and fairly peaceful. Try waving your fingers near the top of a tank of them. If any of them start towards the top ,(thinking you're about to feed them), try to get one of those. Mine was wild-caught, (or just stupid), and stayed in the rockwork for nearly 3 months before it started coming out. I had him in the tank for just over a year and he NEVER got to the point where he'd come out to eat if you were near the tank. I had to feed, then walk 2-3 feet away, or he wouldn't come out. ORA breeds these guys and IMO ORA-raised RG's are better socialized for our tanks, but even the ORA ones can be skittish.

Flashlight Fish - These are friggin cool fish. One of the LFS here in town actually had a few, and I'd have gotten a couple if they hadn't already been paid for. Keep in mind that they seem to do better in a group, than singly, and they need dark spots in the tank to hide during your photoperiod, since they're nocturnal. This might be problematic to arrange in a 30gal. They also might not do well with really agressive fish. I'm not sure if you'd need to feed after the lights went off to make sure they got enough food or not. I don't have any direct experience with them, either in my tanks or in friends tanks.

Before I moved I had 17 fish living peacefully in my 55gal tank, more or less for a year and a half. My mentor and friend was amazed that it worked, he had less than half that many fish in his 180. I tended to buy everything as juveniles, and tried to keep the more agressive fish as the last ones introduced to the tank. I certainly lost some, and made some stupid mistakes. For example I didn't listen to some advice and put a neon dottyback in at one point. It pretty much attacked anything that I put in the tank after it. I had to trap him out. I started the tank with 5 damsels. The fiji, a blue velvet, a domino, one just maked as a blue damsel, (although it had a yellow tail), and a zebra. They all got trapped out except for the fiji, during the course of the 28months the tanks were up before moving. Since moving I've bought and had to trap out a gorgeous purple tang. He was happy in my tank, but everything else in it with him was miserable. :wink:

These are just my opinions, but I did 6 months of research before water went in my tanks. My wife and I made a big list of the fish that we liked, in the order of how much we liked them. Then immediately started crossing off the ones that wouldn't work in our size tank. Then we picked out the top 2-3 from the list and made sure that they'd get along, then started crossing off ones that wouldn't get along with these guys. I still experiment from time to time, (purple tang), and I still lose fish, but I do try very hard to make sure something will fit in with my existing fish before I purchase it.
 

Sugar Magnolia

New Member
yes, great post incysor.

Keep in mind that if you go with the 30 cube, the space under the cube stand is small and won't fit a standard sized tank. It'll need to be custom built fuge. I'm having a hard time finding anything to fit under mine.
 

incysor

New Member
Thanks guys. I do need to add a couple more comments. I forgot to address the green chromis and the black-cap basslet.

I like both of these choices. The things to consider with them are the black-cap tends to be shy like royal grammas. As far as I know they aren't being tank-raised, so they're likely to be shy. Most fish will eventually get over this though. Personally I'd go with the RG, just cause it's more colorful, and they tend to be a bit cheaper. But that's really just a color preference. :smile:

The Chromis, is kinda like the flashlight fish, in that you generally don't want to just put one of them in the tank. By most accounts, and nearly everything I've seen the green chromis are pretty peaceful fish, which is good, but they do better in a small school. So instead of adding one fish, you're probably looking at adding three. I've held off on adding them to my tank for this very reason. My wife keeps bringing it up, (because she likes the schooling behavior), I keep shooting it down, because I'd rather get three different fish. I think we're gonna compromise with her getting two purple firefish, and me getting a blue spotted jawfish. All of which are jumpers.....Hmmm..I need to quit typing and get to working on the darn canopy. :mrgreen:

The other thing I wanted to mention, was when I was typing my response last night I mentioned having 17 fish in my 55. I forgot to mention that my 55 was plumbed together with my 40, which were both plumbed to my 30gal sump. So, I had much more of a buffer to deal with this many fish, than would normally be avalailabe with a 55. I think I've posted before about the setup I had, but figured it needed to be mentioned again.
 
wow, yea im still iffy on the maroon, white stip by the way, right now a have what is either a tomato or a cinnamon, very peaceful fish, in with my firefish, well I might almost defintly get the figi blue devil because they are just beautiful, it looked like Physh1 had one in on of his photos, if he'd say something about it if thats what it really is that would be great, I also love the yellow clown goby, Il play around with him and the acro, who knows, the clown really has to go in there and I really wanted the flame angel, maybe Il go with a coral beauty and change the clown to a cinnamon? Yea I figured the black cap would be same temperment as the Royal, il just have to chose, maybe il go with 3 chromis but only if I get the 50, otherwise the 30 is a little small to notice how they school, I usually use saltwater guppys as a school/food for who ever wants them, throw like 15 in, ok then, um is their any chance the flame wont eat the corals or clams, I really love that fish but dont have a very good LFS to do something like that at, mine just has a few big fish, il have to drive out to a good one, also if I was to get two flashlights their big fish, I might try my luck with one, I think my revised list is,

Coral Beauty
yellow clown goby (if hes a problem I donate him to LFS, cheap enough)
Figi blue devil (maybe)
cinnamon clown
flashlight fish im good at making caves, my 10g has 3 big caves
royal gramma tankbred, find an active one
 
just wondering anyone know anything about lemonpeel angels or blue saphire damsels, these could alter my list getting rid of the figi blue devil and the yellow clown goby although i really love that goby
 

incysor

New Member
ExiledInfidel666 said:
just wondering anyone know anything about lemonpeel angels or blue saphire damsels, these could alter my list getting rid of the figi blue devil and the yellow clown goby although i really love that goby
Coral Beauty
yellow clown goby (if hes a problem I donate him to LFS, cheap enough)
Figi blue devil (maybe)
cinnamon clown
flashlight fish im good at making caves, my 10g has 3 big caves
royal gramma tankbred, find an active one

I'd actually gamble with the flame angel before I'd try the lemonpeel in an SPS/Clam tank. There's a coral propagation farm/company here in town that's supposedly one of the largest in the country, and the guy that runs it has had 4-5 lemonpeels in several tanks trying to find one that wouldn't nip his corals/clams without any success. Since you really like both the flame and the yellow clown goby, I'd just wait on both of them until you have your tank fairly well stocked with SPS, then try putting them in and keep a close eye on things. That way hopeully the clown wouldn't perch continuously on the same piece of coral, thereby irritating it, and if the flame did start to nip you'd have a good chance of trapping it out before it managed to kill anything. I think that if you manage to leave plenty of holes for the flashlight fish they'd be really cool. I read a bit more on them and it seems that they 'flash' more if there's more than one, because it's an interactive behavior. I think that the fiji probably wouldn't be too much of a problem with your new list. It may butt heads a bit with the angel, but perhaps not. In my 55 the fiji stayed on one side of the tank, and the half-blue stayed on the other. The coral beauty would swim up to them, and either nudge them and then swim off really quickly like it was trying to play tag or something, or wait for them to bristle up then swim off. I swear it seemed to enjoy getting the damsels all riled up and then would just kinda swim off like "What're you gonna do, I'm WAY bigger than you, little damsel." Bizarre interaction, but it was highly amusing. Here's a few pics from the old 55 that shows them.



 
ok well I think im going to get the 30cube soon as i sell my other tank as I doubt i will ever be able to move a 50g or more to college and back 2 times a year when that time comes in 2 years :D , im going to buy a 2dr cabinat to match the tank which will go next to the tank, this will house the biggest fuge it will fit plus a top off and possibly a small freezer for frozen food since the refridgerator is 2 floors down and its quite annoying, anyone know where to get small freezers?, on that last pic thats not a coral beauty angel in the pic is it, looks very dark, phish has told me about his figi blue damsel and his not a bigger problem then a normal damsel, only rare problems, hopefully mine will be cool like that to, il probably just buy a pair of percs or false percs, I like false more but they are bigger might just go with the trues, might try the flame angel anyways as well, does anyone have the demensions on the inside of the 30cubes base, just wondering, thanks all
 
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