A little advice

[ln]

Hi everyone,

And thank you all for creating and contributing to this great resource/community. It’s been interesting and inspiring to read and see your projects come to life. Truly amazing stuff.

Anyway, if you’ll bear with me, I have some newbie questions on which I’m hoping to garner your insights. I guess I should qualify my newbie distinction a little bit. I mean, I haven’t had an aquarium for many, many years. But my parents are ichthyologists, and I’ve had both fresh and saltwater aquariums since childhood – small, big, tropical, coldwater, wild, spawning tanks, you name it. But again, it’s been a long time. And judging by what I see here things have changed, a lot.

In fact, that’s what’s been giving me pause. It seems a lot more complicated than how I remember it. And frankly, it’s intimidating – not so much from a knowledge aspect, but more from a time commitment perspective. So really, I’ll start with my question before I do more explaining. How much more work is it going to be to have a fish-only with live rock marine tank vs. a really well-planted freshwater tank?

So let me explain a little more. Main reason I am setting up a new tank is that I now have a daughter who is really into critters – ants, beetles, butterflies, geckos, fish, etc. So in addition to other stuff, we wanted to get her an aquarium. Now, originally I just planned on getting a pretty mellow freshwater setup. But my wife apparently has some strong preferences (surprise).

Number 1 is that it has to be small – probably between 8-12 gals. Number 2 is that she wants saltwater. Really, she just wants colorful fish (and bright light/vibe), but despite my efforts to show her how pretty freshies can be, she remains totally unconvinced. Then of course, my daughter wants a “Nemo” which I assume is an Ocellaris (sp.) or similar (Dora is out of the question) and which I totally realize puts me in the cliché of ‘come and go’ hobbyists. Nevertheless, I’d like to try to get it right.

Anyway, I can probably push forward and prevail with the wife on a freshwater setup as long as it’s really bright with lots and lots of green and brightly colored fish. But then I was looking further into supplies and proper care of planted tanks which seems to have changed a lot over the years. Seems like there is a lot more work involved in water chemistry than I ever did.

I guess I always tried to set up my tanks so they could remain in balance without much fiddling/maintenance – kind of in perpetuity. I mean, the tank I set up in the late 80s for my mother is still going strong with virtually no maintenance. Sure, a fish passes away every several years and has to be replaced, but there are no water changes, no chemical balancing, no filter media replacement, no nothing. Just a sad little airstone. Probably the same one from 1988, lol.

Anyway, after reading about today’s requirements, I’m just scratching my head and wondering if I should: (a) ignore this stuff and just try to build a planted FW tank old-school style (am I deluding myself?), (b) do a FW setup, but expect to be biting off the time commitment associated with real water-chemistry monitoring/balancing, (c) do a SW setup with eyes wide open and satisfy the mom and kid with a clown, some cleaner inverts, and live rock (maybe a dartfish if the tank’s big enough), or (d) go even farther and also get an anemone to demonstrate symbiosis (yes, I’ve had them before – mostly the coldwater eastern pacific kind – and I realize the pita, but they really are cool and interesting)?

Sorry for the long post. And thanks in advance for any thoughts and opinions. Hopefully with your sage advice I’ll be able to post up pics of a successful little project before too long.

 

[jenwebber3]

well, biocubes are 'new' if you haven't been fishing for a while. the advantage is that all the filter stuff is contained behind the back wall, leaving the open tank space free of tubes and boxes and heaters and such. advantage to salt is it doesn't necessarily need a heater, depending on where you are (i'm in the midwest and water stays a constant 78 in mine). i've found through my year with both fresh and salt (like you, i have a lot of history, mostly in fresh, and used to set up and clean tanks for a living) that once salt is set up and cycled, it is really easy to care for. diseases are more rare, bad algae is rare with proper photoperiods, etc. if you end up salt, i'd definitely get some live rock; this will make it very minimal maintenance. i must confess i do very few water changes. the rock helps it cycle, plus you get the added bonus of 'grab bag' critters that hitchhike in the rock, like starfish, macroalgae, worms...depending on which part of the country you're in, Biocubes are typically made by JBL or Oceanic. (oceanic is in the midwest, e.g.). I don't think you need to fuss with making something yourself, particularly that small. some other peeps might disagree, but I like simple and ready-to-go. (not to mention I'd never trust my silicone job on a self-made tank).

i have a 65-gallon planted freshwater, and it takes way more of my time between cleaning detritus, siphoning the bottom, etc. with my salt, the hermit crabs and shrimp take care of the gravel, worms etc the yuck, and the filterfeeding shrimp and porcelain crab and some coral take care of the rest. it takes longer to cycle, and the stuff is more expensive, but it lives longer. This is the only pet-related endeavor i've ever done that my husband is as excited about and interested in.

I have some pretty freshies. I hate livebearers, and in a small tank you know as well as I that goldfish and platies are a big, dirty mistake. I have some Blue Ram Cichlids that are the apple of my eye, and you can get some great pretty little tetras like Von Rios or Columbians. But, like I mentioned before, the chance of disease is always greater, and the lifespan not so great. Salties are more fun to watch, come in a better variety of shapes and sizes, and with the coral and live rock, you have a pretty nice self-contained ecosystem that takes care of itself. I don't even do anything special with lighting, just the 10000K and actinic compact flourescents. I've pbly but in about $700+ into my little money pit, but $250 of that was rock, of which you wouldn't have much, and the tank itself was about $250 with the stand. you don't even need a stand with a small 8-12 gal.

I would caution to not buy live rock online, and I don't buy fish that way either. But for supplies, online is always cheaper for me. I'm a big user of Foster & Smith Aquatics. I also really love everything Seachem makes as far as supplements go (both fresh and salt), partly because their customer support if you have questions is amazing. Again, people might disagree with me of the "must-haves," but I'll give you my inventory list: reef plus, calcium, garlic extreme (good for fussy eaters and parasites), stress coat marine (does the same thing as freshwater version), lots of different frozen and dry foods, hygrometer, and a test kit, though I pretty much only ever test for nitrate and sometimes (though very rarely) calcium.

I'm sure I could say a lot more, but that was a lot and I think I'll get carpal tunnel if I keep going! keep asking questions, I got so much help here when I ventured into reefs! I'm a second-guessing panicky type, so if you need a sounding board, I get it! good luck!

 

[ln]

Thank you so much for the very thoughtful and thorough reply. Following your advice, I did some looking into biocubes and lo and behold, this product matched the torn page from some mag that my wife gave me when suggesting what I should be looking for. I admit, they are pretty damn slick. And after adding things up, both time and money, it feels like a good value vs. home build. And I think I’ve been convinced that a nice SW setup is worth it.

So i’ve ordered a nanocube 12 deluxe and some accoutrements. I found a shop only 6 blocks away that sells live rock, corals, and fish. Their aquarium health looks ok though I expected better. Debating about whether to buy fish there though. Will do some more recon while the tank cycles. Inventory purchased so far and in-transit: nanocube 12, test kit, refractometer, salt, sand, thermometer, small heater, and water conditioner.

I’m going to have a look when it arrives and think about a NO3 solution (I kinda despise water changes if you couldn’t already tell). Need to see how things look in the back of the cube to figure out what can be done without getting too fancy.

I’ve never had a tank so small; do you think that 15 lbs of substrate is enough? And I was also thinking 15lbs of live rock – in the right ballpark?

Random kooky thought – has anyone ever tried eating/cooking with aquarium salt? Just asking since I was thinking about how much I pay for stupid designer-like kitchen sea salt.

Might end up ordering some cleanr inverts and/or fish from the foster & smith site you gave me. Many thanks again!

 

[ln]

also, live rock is $10/lb locally and like $6 and change at that online store. How bad would the die off be if i ordered online?

 

[ln]

ordered a ro/di after testing my water. phosphates. ugh.

 

[jenwebber3]

be VERY careful about buying live rock online. I personally never would. You have no idea if it's cured or for how long, meaning there could be all sorts of dead clams and other organisms rotting in the rock when it's in your tank. I only bought cured live rock. The store I got mine is very good about curing it before they let you buy it. You can even earmark some pieces for them to hold for you while it cured. And I recommend buying all the rock first. For one, you don't have to restructure your whole tank when you add rock, and for two, once your rock in the tank is cured, it can be tricky to add new and not throw off the cycle. So long story short, since you'll only need around a pound per gallon, I'd eat the $48 difference and buy it in person. You can pick the sizes and shapes you want to build your structure (my store let me play with different pieces in a styril to see which ones would work), and you can avoid the issues of stinky dieoff, mystery parasites and biting mantis shrimp (which you DO NOT want in your tank).

If you don't like water changes (and I rarely do any myself), the live rock and substrate helps the cycling immensely (sort of like plants in a fresh tank) and you can also put some macroalgae in the refugium in the back of the tank. Take the bioballs out, put the plants in, and pout some light back there (there is usually a small window on the back of the tank for this). However, I don't think this would be super-necessary in a 12-gal. Also, the filter area of my tank was populated by various sponges and forams in about 6 months' time, and they do a great job of filter-feeding as well. I personally think there are enough filter-feeders and bacterial organisms in the tank to tank care of cycling. Like I said, I'm lazy about water changes and my water doesn't even get stinky. You just need to keep an eye out for the evaporation; typically, you'll add straight RO to top the tank off, since the evaporated water leaves salt behind.

Maybe this will make you feel a little better: When I setup my tank, I got 29 gallons of free salt water from the store (pre-mixed with salt and all the additives).
I filled the tank, and because I had about 30 pounds of live rock, didn't use all the water. I had about 12 gallons left over, and 6 months later, STILL had about 5 gallons, and this was only because I had done a water change after a long power outage and another after I lost a shrimp that had died overnight.
So you don't need a lot of salt. You can also check if your store sells pre-mixed water for you, making it much easier than trying to mix salt and water and buffer to the right ratios. (the water at my store is at a nice 30ppm (1.024) or so.

I'm more than happy to share what i know, hope that helps!
and no, i've never cooked with aquarium salt. i wouldn't recommend it, since it's not straight sea salt, and has other minerals added to it. And i wouldn't use straight seal salt either, because you never know what the iodine level is.